Episode 40
Episode 40 | Podcasts: Behind the Scenes (ft. Barrett Gruber)
Join Amii and Barrett as they dive into the behind-the-scenes world of podcast creation, sharing their personal journeys and insights from their respective shows. They discuss the realities of producing a podcast, including the significant time and effort it takes to create high-quality content. Both hosts reflect on their early experiences, the challenges of scheduling guests, and the importance of community engagement in growing their audiences. Barrett, with his extensive background in radio, shares his approach to podcasting, while Amii highlights her desire to inform and entertain through her show. Together, they explore the nuances of podcasting, from equipment choices to the impact of social media, offering valuable tips for aspiring podcasters.
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Transcript
Welcome to Wonderland, the podcast where I go down the rabbit hole to research things you may be curious about.
Amie:My name is Amie, and I'll be your guide on this trip to Wonderland.
Amie: e of welcome to Wonderland in: Amie:Today, I'm going to do things a little bit differently.
Amie:I've got some very exciting episodes planned for this year, but this episode is a conversation with Barrett Gruber, who is no stranger to welcome to Wonderland.
Amie:We're going to talk about what it's like to make a podcast.
Amie:I'm not going to get into the history of a podcast because that was episode one.
Amie:So if you've been with me since the beginning, you kind of know how podcasts came to fruition.
Amie:I'm not going to talk about social media because that was episode 18.
Amie:I've already talked about that.
Amie:But what we are going to talk about today is what it's like to actually do it, to decide that you want to make a podcast and put it out into the world.
Amie:So this is kind of a candid conversation that Barrett and I are going to have for you.
Amie:So if you're thinking about doing a podcast, you kind of know the pros and the cons and the things that are successes and the things that are failures and what we've learned from it.
Amie:And obviously, it's still a learning process for us.
Amie:So in case you don't know who he is, this gentleman right here is Barrett Gruber.
Amie:He is host of the All About Nothing podcast as well as what the pod, which I think is coming back this month.
Barrett:Yes, maybe we're trying.
Barrett:We're working on it.
Amie:And in addition to those, Barrett regularly appears on other podcasts such as Black.
Barrett:White, Blue in the South, Black, White.
Amie:Blue in the South.
Amie:He has also been on Fame and Midas's.
Amie:Yeah, you do things with Preach, who's down at Soul House.
Amie:So Barrett is a wealth of knowledge in the world of podcasting, at least for us here locally.
Amie: for us, was best of Columbia: Amie: nking they're going for it in: Barrett:Yeah, we've discussed potentially, potentially trying to work our way back into the winning position.
Barrett:But for those that have won these contests before, Zach and I really don't have an ego about it.
Barrett:So if we lose, it's not really that big a deal.
Barrett:We.
Barrett:I don't need to be invited to.
Amie:The party, but I like it if they win.
Amie:And I can go to the party.
Amie:It's a really nice party.
Amie:All right, so in addition to all of those, Barrett is also the.
Amie:I don't.
Amie:I don't know what the right word is.
Amie:CEO, Emperor Tyrant, King of Tyrant King.
Barrett:Probably makes the most sense.
Amie:Founder.
Amie:I don't know.
Amie:So he is the head of Big Media, which is the umbrella that welcome to Wonderland goes up under, as well as All About Nothing or the All About Nothing podcast.
Amie:What?
Amie:The POD and Black, White and Blue in the South.
Amie:Those are all Big Media products.
Amie:So he's my expert for today.
Barrett:That's a stretch.
Amie:All right, so kind of.
Amie:Let's talk about it.
Amie:So you've been doing podcasting.
Amie:I remember.
Amie:I remember you talking about how so, guys, for those of you who don't know, Barrett used to be in radio and has a passion for giving his opinion.
Amie:Giving his opinion and you all listening to his voice.
Amie:So back when Barrett first started the company that we both used to work at, he was always talking about being on radio and stuff.
Amie:And I remember talking to you about, why don't you do a podcast?
Amie:Because he had all these opinions that he wanted to get out there, but, you know, maybe the office wasn't the right place for it.
Barrett:Yeah.
Amie:And so you started the All About Nothing podcast.
Amie:And so how did it.
Amie:How did it start for you?
Amie:Like, did you have the idea first?
Amie:Did you have the name first?
Barrett:Like, I definitely didn't have the name first.
Barrett:There was.
Barrett:There was actually another podcast I found after the fact that had the All About Nothing as the name of their show.
Barrett:And I thought.
Barrett:Well, I really.
Barrett:And I didn't.
Barrett:I didn't see that at first.
Barrett:I think.
Barrett:I don't know.
Barrett:I think I was gonna call it, like, Barrett's blog or I had gone through, I think, several different names that none of them really stuck.
Barrett:And.
Barrett:And I really felt like it wasn't a show that was specifically about anything.
Barrett:So calling it the All About Nothing sort of allowed for growth or not to be pigeonholed into any specific genre or subject.
Barrett:There are lots of programs out there that I listen to.
Barrett:Dear Old Dads is a program that's specifically about three different.
Barrett:Three.
Barrett:Three guys that are fathers that.
Barrett:That come together and talk about stories from them growing up or them being fathers and just the difference in what life is like as a father versus what life could have potentially been like or what they thought it was going to be like.
Barrett:I listen to programs that are role playing Dungeons and Dragons that are very entertaining because of the, the amount of work that goes into being a dungeon master as well as how much it goes into being a character under that dungeon master's story.
Amie:All of that, like, were those podcasts you were listening to when you decided to do your own or those are all ones that, as you were kind of honing in on your own thought process that you started branching out listening to these other podcasts.
Barrett:I don't think I even listened to.
Barrett:I don't think I listened to a whole lot of podcasts when I started the All About Nothing.
Barrett:I think maybe I was listening to the Dollop.
Barrett:I listened to Pod Save America.
Barrett:So like political or Dollop is a very in depth story about a specific thing that happened in history or a person.
Barrett:And so, so I may have been listening to those at that time, but I don't think that I had really, I don't, I don't think that I had pigeon hold myself into any specifics.
Barrett:I think it was, you know, I listened to some when I was on.
Barrett:When I was on the radio in Winder, I had my own morning show and.
Barrett:But one of the things that was my responsibility was a community forum program where we interviewed leaders and politicians and whatnot from the Winder area, the Barrow county area of Georgia.
Barrett:So I did that as an interview program.
Barrett:But even then I think I was doing it kind of the same way we do the About Nothing, which is trying to take something that would potentially be interesting or important and put a little bit of a humorous spin on it so that, so that we stay engaged and, and listeners.
Amie:And it wasn't always a we though, right?
Barrett:No.
Amie:So the first many episodes were just you?
Barrett:Yeah.
Barrett:Anything.
Barrett:Anything under like 60 is probably any, any episodes earlier than 60 are probably just me.
Barrett:I think I had a few guests from time to time friends that I worked with that I thought had opinions that they would like to also express.
Barrett:So I would basically record on my computer and put a phone next to the microphone so that you could hear whoever it was that was a guest that eventually moved up a little bit better equipment.
Amie:Yeah, it goes into that.
Barrett:But yeah, so.
Barrett:So it, you know, as things progressed and I learned more then I learned more about how to, how to properly pull guests into shows and things like that.
Amie:So.
Amie:And I listened to.
Amie:I'm actually, I'm going to take credit for it.
Amie:You have a podcast.
Amie:Because I was like, you should get a podcast.
Amie:So I'm gonna take credit for it.
Barrett:That is a Fact, she was the one that encouraged me to do it.
Amie:But I listened to.
Amie:I'm behind now.
Amie:I have listened to hundreds of episodes of the All About Nothing.
Amie:And at some point, he brought Zach on, he brought Trent on.
Amie:And that was a really nice.
Amie:Because Trent brought kind of a silly side to it.
Amie:Zach is also quite silly.
Amie:And then you're more kind of a deadpan, dry sense of humor.
Barrett:Yeah, Zach and Zach and Trent, both very witty, very quick improv.
Barrett:Pretty well when you know on a subject just enough.
Barrett:Enough intelligence about something to have a conversation.
Barrett:No, no, no, no, no.
Barrett:Because ultimately sometimes you don't want.
Barrett:You don't want someone to know everything about it because that becomes welcome to Wonderland and Sorry, come on now.
Amie:But he makes a valid point.
Amie:So obviously I hung out with Barrett and Zach and Trent, and sometimes when they were recording, I would hang out with them.
Amie:Anytime they were doing any kind of live or outreach, then I wanted to be there and be involved.
Amie:And at some point along the way, I was like, I think I want to make a podcast.
Barrett:Sure.
Amie:And I mean, because everybody can do it.
Amie:I mean, and that's kind of the benefit to podcasting is literally, you can do it with basically anything.
Amie:And we'll kind of talk more about that in a minute.
Amie:But I think for me, one of the things was like, I knew I wanted to do a podcast just because of being around you all, but I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do.
Amie:And then I kind of had this idea and I bounced off a Barrett, and I was like, I think I want to do so Radiolab was one of my most favorite podcasts, especially years ago.
Amie:And I was like, I think I want to do something where it's informational.
Amie:And before this, I was doing a series on TikTok where I was making a cocktail drink and telling people a good story, a feel good story at the same time.
Amie:And I knew that whatever I did, I wanted to put something out into the world that was beneficial, that was useful, that wasn't just fluff or wasn't just, you know, I wanted something substantial.
Amie:And so I was like, this is kind of the idea I have.
Amie:And he's like, you should do it.
Amie:And so then I.
Amie:It kind of went from there.
Amie:I think I.
Amie:So first I wanted to do a podcast, then I picked a subject, then I picked a title.
Amie:So I think I did it kind of in a weird order there.
Barrett:No, I think.
Barrett:I think that's probably the natural.
Barrett:I think I recorded a couple episodes of by myself before I had a title for or for a name for the podcast.
Barrett:And so, yeah, I think the chicken came before the egg in this case.
Amie:But what I didn't anticipate was that it was going to be so hard.
Amie:So I think one of the things, because I literally just told you all, literally anyone can make a podcast.
Amie:And that is a true statement.
Amie:Literally anyone can make a podcast.
Amie:There are people who do it just recording on their phone.
Amie:There's not a whole lot that has to go into it.
Amie:But, you know, and I watched Barrett do it weekly with more than one podcast.
Amie:Like he had two that he was doing it on and then he was doing these guest spots.
Amie:And I don't think that I was fully aware of the amount of work that went into doing.
Amie:Doing something that you want to be proud of and be high quality.
Amie:It'd be one thing to just post something, to post something.
Amie:But if you talk to me on a personal level, basically anyone who listens to welcome to Wonderland, who knows me outside just the show, I regularly talk about just how much time goes into it.
Amie:That's why we've scaled back on episodes, because there's so much time that goes into it.
Amie:So for me to bring a 20 minute episode, that first episode of the podcast episode, which I think was a little longer than 20 minutes, but 20, 30 minute episode, I was doing 10 and 15 hours of research, then doing the recording and then doing the editing to bring it all together.
Amie:And, you know, early on you're still trying to find how you want it to look and how you want it to sound and all of that.
Amie:Yeah.
Amie:And I don't think that I was fully prepared for just the amount of work that was going to go into, to bringing that to fruition.
Amie:Was that the same kind of thing for you?
Amie:Like, you were like, oh, this is going to be super easy peasy.
Amie:And then like, along the way you're like, okay, well, I'm spending way more time doing editing.
Amie:I'm spending way more time doing this.
Amie:Or social media.
Barrett:Yeah, social media, I think, is the biggest drain.
Barrett:But yeah, so when I, when I started out, I didn't have any.
Barrett:So we use, we use a couple pieces of software over the Internet that really make things a lot easier for us.
Barrett:One of the things we use for our distribution of the audio for podcasts is called Captivate.
Barrett:And Captivate allows us to upload our audio to it, write out all of our show notes, and then attach anything to that podcast that we want, whether it's other audio clips or links and things like that.
Barrett:So that when the.
Barrett:When the podcast is distributed and published to everyone, it is uniform, that it has all of the necessary SEO stuff to make sure that it's discoverable.
Amie:And so for people who don't know.
Barrett:What SEO is, search in Search Engine Optimization, which means, so basically a better SEO score on something that you've published, which essentially is going to make it to a website like it's going to.
Barrett:When we publish these episodes, it creates a website that you can go to to listen to those, or you can listen to it on any one of your podcast platforms.
Barrett:But the higher the SEO score, which is basically the subject of the podcast, the subject or the title of the show, and any informational blurb that you can put into it, as well as all the information that follows after that.
Barrett:So the show notes can create a better SEO score.
Barrett:If you put time markers in your podcast, that will create a better SEO score because it's.
Barrett:It's indicating specifics about chat, you know, pieces of the podcast, rather than just someone getting a title and maybe a brief note.
Amie:And so that's for people specifically who are searching for something so that your podcast will come up.
Barrett:Right.
Amie:Okay, so we use Captivate.
Amie:You can keep going.
Amie:Sorry.
Barrett:Riverside is another one that we use.
Barrett:And Riverside is.
Barrett:It's almost like, think about, like Zoom.
Barrett:So through a web browser, we have guests connect and Zach and I record through Riverside to.
Barrett:To get our recording.
Barrett:And then that houses both the audio and the video that we can then turn into an episode that can be published.
Barrett:I still do some editing with the video for, you know, adding things like the opening music or potentially like a cold open, and basically just things that make the show more entertaining.
Barrett:We assume it's entertaining for everyone that listens, but for the most part, we're entertaining ourselves.
Amie:So you, you mentioned music.
Amie:So that's one of those things that, as you get in, you start, you can't just use any music.
Amie:Right.
Amie:Like, so when you start putting content out and talking specifically about podcasts, then you.
Amie:There's a certain amount of responsibility that comes in with you not violating copyright law.
Amie:Yeah.
Amie:So.
Barrett:So if you're asking me how I've managed to use a very popular 90s artist for our opening, it is because I asked permission, and I received permission from the Cake, the band, to use the instrumental part of one of their songs.
Barrett:Now, I changed enough of that song where they can't claim copyright, but it sounds just like their song.
Barrett:But I asked for permission, so.
Amie:And for welcome to Wonderland, I go A different route.
Amie:And I use a website called Upbeat, and I have sourced music from there.
Amie:I pay the subscription cost for it.
Amie:So.
Amie:And all of these things have generally.
Amie:So I don't know about Captivate, actually, but Riverside has a free version as well as a paid version.
Amie:Beat has a free version as well as a paid version.
Amie:Captivate.
Barrett:Captivate, I think had a free version, but you won't get a lot of function out of it without paying for it.
Amie:So let's kind of talk about some of the cost that goes into doing a podcast.
Amie:So originally I was recording in a studio over at Got Sound Studio in Lexington, although they were in Columbia before that, and I was paying $40 an hour to do that.
Amie:So every episode that I recorded at that studio came with the initial cost of $40 based.
Amie:I mean, just out of the bucket for me.
Amie:And you also recorded there, so you all had that eventually.
Amie:Well, I'll be honest, Barrett got good equipment, so we didn't have to record in the studio necessarily.
Amie:Although if you are in the Columbia area and you're looking to record a podcast, Nick is fantastic.
Amie:That studio is so clean.
Amie:They've got good quality equipment in there.
Amie:And truly, I think it's $60 now, right?
Barrett:I think so, yeah.
Barrett:$60 an hour.
Amie:But it's still.
Amie:It's a phenomenal place to record.
Amie:So if you're in the area, definitely look them up.
Amie:But if you're looking to do it at home, so which is kind of the route that we are.
Amie:You know, I joke all the time in my outro that I'm in the welcome to Wonderland recording closet because I literally record in closet when I'm at home.
Amie:But so cost you're talking about.
Amie:So the subscription software, Captivate is Captivate's.
Barrett:I think, $180 a year for what we use it for or for the level that we have.
Barrett:And that I'm estimating, I think it's 180.
Barrett:But essentially what that does is that gives us more than like 300,000 potential downloads in a year.
Barrett:We can have as many podcasts names on our account as we want.
Barrett:We just.
Barrett:If.
Barrett:If we start to approach that 300,000, which we haven't, then in a year, then we.
Barrett:We would.
Barrett:We would just have to buy.
Barrett:We would have to buy up.
Barrett:But yeah, so essentially what that does is it creates an RSS feed that.
Barrett:That software then creates an update to the RSS feed that most of these podcast listeners are grabbing a hold of.
Barrett:And so when a new episode comes out, it refreshes the RSS feed and say, you know, a Spotify or YouTube music.
Barrett:They will then grab that new RSS feed, which then populates the new podcast into their.
Barrett:Into their archive of availability.
Amie:So we've got 180 with captivate yearly.
Amie:Riverside is 25amonth.
Barrett:So we, we pay yearly for Riverside.
Barrett:I think Riverside comes out like 2:30 a year, something like that.
Barrett:But we have found the usefulness of a lot of what Riverside has available because we do a lot of the episode editing in Riverside.
Barrett:Now we export the audio and the video.
Barrett:I literally will upload this audio and video to Riverside in order to give me a file online that she can.
Barrett:Then she can edit and do what she needs to before she publishes her episode.
Amie:Right.
Amie:And then upbeat is like $6 for me.
Amie:Are there any other subscription costs that we have for doing this?
Barrett:No.
Barrett:No, I can't.
Barrett:I can't think so.
Barrett:I think for the most part it's.
Barrett:It's somewhere around the.
Barrett:The $400 range to, to be able to.
Barrett:To host a lot of podcasts.
Amie:So we've got the.
Amie:The subscription cost, but then equipment.
Amie:So here we record with better equipment than I do at home.
Amie:Like at home.
Amie:I've got a.
Barrett:Sure.
Amie:Is that what it's called?
Amie:Yeah, I've got a Shore mic.
Amie:It cost me 4, 40 bucks, give or take.
Amie:I've got a mic arm that was probably another 20, 25 dollars.
Amie:I did have to get a new computer, but that's because I was using a tablet for a computer for a really long time and it was pretty old.
Barrett:She kept calling at her computer too, and I was offended it was a Windows computer.
Amie:I was offended it was a Windows computer.
Amie:Anyway, so I did get a new laptop, but because I use Audacity for my audio editing on here and it just has a better job of that.
Amie:But at home I use.
Amie:I don't even know what that thing is.
Amie:It's yours.
Amie:It's his.
Amie:It's like a square.
Barrett:It's a mixing board.
Amie:A mixing board.
Amie:And that's what my mic plugs into.
Amie:And then that plugs into my computer.
Amie:So that one had no cost to me.
Amie:I don't know what that cost out of the box.
Amie:There's one Zoom brand one that I think everybody says is pretty good.
Amie:It's around 150.
Amie:It's been in my Amazon wishlist for a really long time, but it stays at 150.
Amie:There's a guy who's selling one on Facebook around here, but I could Never get a hold of it.
Barrett:Yeah, I've got.
Barrett:I have my.
Barrett:The Zoom Track 4 Sitting on my desk behind me, and then a Zoom Track 8, which is over there in the corner recording this.
Amie:So I'm using his mixing board thing.
Amie:And then I've got some sound panels because it's in my closet.
Amie:And I've got a very loud household.
Amie:Very small, very loud.
Amie:But my all in cost as far as equipment.
Amie:And we'll take out the computer because that's not fair, but is probably around $100 is what I paid for equipment to be able to do it.
Amie:Audacity is a free program, so when I'm recording the audio, that doesn't cost me anything if I'm not recording here using Riverside, because I do it both ways.
Amie:And if it was recorded in the welcome to Wonderland recording closet, it's through Audacity and on my computer, if it was recorded at the big media home office, then it's using Riverside.
Amie:And if it was recorded remote, it's using Riverside.
Amie:Or if I've got a guess.
Amie:And then for you, you've got all.
Amie:I wish I could show you guys.
Amie:My cost, I just told you, is around $100.
Amie:My share of what I pay towards the podcast is around $60.
Barrett:Yeah, like at least 60 a year or so.
Amie:60 a year.
Barrett:So actually, I think you up that with Riverside.
Amie:Oh, that's right.
Amie:Because I wanted to.
Amie:I used to have my own Riverside, and then it seemed silly, so I just use theirs.
Amie:My cost is relatively low, and that that could be the case for basically anybody.
Amie:But you.
Amie:Again, you've got this nicer equipment, so kind of talk us through what you've got, and maybe if it's not too scandalous, the cost associated with four people who want to take it a little more serious.
Amie:So I do podcast once a month, give or take.
Amie:You do a podcast every week just for All About Nothing.
Amie:And I don't interview people of the same caliber.
Amie:I mean, literally the All About Nothing has interviewed presidential candidates.
Amie:So.
Amie:Yeah, but it's different, you know, so the equipment that they use is more professional.
Amie:So what kinds of things have you bought and used and kind of what's that cost to do a more legitimate, more professional setup?
Barrett:Well, so I'll start out with.
Barrett:Initially, what you need is something to record on and something to record with.
Barrett:So to record on a computer or you need some sort of a device that will record the audio that's being recorded, mostly a recording device to record with, which would be the microphone you want A microphone.
Barrett:And it really just depends on what sort of sound you want.
Barrett:But you probably want a microphone that has a decent noise gate so that it cuts out, clock ticking or say a fan running or something like that.
Barrett:Once, once you get, once you decide on how you want to sound, then you can decide on how much money you want to invest into a microphone.
Barrett:The microphone that a me records in our closet is the same microphone that I use for like remotes.
Barrett:Like if we go somewhere to record, we would set up microphones to record with each one of those, and I have five.
Barrett:Each one of those cost about $40, so you're looking at $200 in microphones.
Barrett:They come with cords, so I don't have to worry about getting cords for those.
Barrett:Since then, for remotes, we have moved over to lapel microphones.
Barrett:Those are those.
Barrett:Yeah, they have a, they don't have the same quality that, that microphones like, like the Shurers have, but for the most part I think that they do pretty well.
Barrett:They pick up a lot of the low end modulation as well as the high end modulation.
Barrett:And they, they, they work very well for, for what we're using them for.
Amie:So is it a trial and error for you?
Barrett:Yeah.
Amie:So you've tried different things out and you're like, okay, I like this, I don't like this.
Barrett:Yeah.
Barrett:So one of the things that, that we also do is every Tuesday and Thursday, I do, we, we do a little morning show on our YouTube channels.
Barrett:That is myself and Bill Kimmeler, who is one of the hosts of Black, White and Blue in the South.
Barrett:But we get on and we'll talk about different news subjects or we'll talk about things that are going on that day or went on since the last time we talked.
Barrett:So we, we, we have conversations about things and it goes on for about 20 minutes and it adds more content to the library that helps drive the algorithm.
Amie:So let's talk about the algorithm then.
Amie:That one's tough.
Amie:So you have this dream that you're going to make a podcast and part of it you're doing for yourself.
Amie:I mean, in any situation you're like, I want to do this because I want to do this.
Barrett:Well, let me ask you what, what percentage of the work you do is for yourself and how much of it is for engagement with others?
Amie:For you, 80, 20.
Barrett:Mine is.
Barrett:So she means 80%.
Barrett:She wants approval.
Amie:No, no, no, 80% is me.
Barrett:80% for you.
Barrett:Oh, okay, interesting.
Barrett:I would have thought that number would have been a lot, a lot higher.
Barrett:I would have thought you were looking for the fame and fortune.
Barrett:Mine is probably 95% just to entertain me.
Barrett:And I have recorded it and put it out there.
Barrett:And if it's entertaining for others, then they stick around.
Barrett:If it isn't, they move along.
Barrett:They can move right the heck along.
Amie:I'm a G rated podcast, let's not forget heck.
Amie:All right, so.
Amie:And that's kind of one of the things.
Amie:So I told you guys earlier that when I make a podcast, I literally.
Amie:And some of them, I think the most that I've.
Amie:I wish I could remember.
Amie:I probably have 30 hours in an episode.
Barrett:That is.
Barrett:So if your next question is.
Barrett:If your next question is asking me how much time I put into preparing for an episode, it's not.
Barrett:Yeah, there's very little preparation.
Barrett:I will.
Barrett:If we're having a guest, then I will research who that guest is.
Amie:No, what I was going to say is I may put 30 hours into a 20 minute episode.
Amie:And there are some episodes that I have put a lot of time into or I'm really proud of the radio episode.
Amie:The radio episode, I think, is one of my best episodes.
Amie:Y'all don't listen to it.
Amie:Like, I do not get it.
Amie:So there are times that, like, you know, I'll put a lot of effort into an episode and then I'll have 30 lessons, you know, and like, I'm going, wow, I just put a lot of work.
Amie:And so for me, it can't be more than like 80, 20, because that, you know, I think in those instances and that can be really disheartening.
Amie:So when you put that much time into an episode and then it doesn't have.
Amie:And that's why.
Amie:So it's not 95,5 for me, it's 80 20.
Amie:Like that 20% I do want.
Amie:But then you've got people who come up and they're like, hey, I learned.
Amie:Like, I had no idea, you know, like, they'll come and talk to me about it.
Amie:And that part is like, okay, well, maybe it's not just for me.
Amie:Maybe, maybe there are people out here who are enjoying what I'm bringing out, even if it's not the masses who are listening to it.
Amie:But all about nothing is kind of a different realm than that, because your viewership and your listenership is not.
Amie:It's not so niche.
Amie:Like, so I've got this very small listenership.
Amie:It grows.
Amie:There's some episodes that do really well.
Amie:People like Halloween, all of the Halloween episodes.
Barrett:It helps when your guests promote that they were on the show as well.
Amie:And that's what I kind of wanted to talk about.
Amie:So you do a fair amount of guests, I would say probably these days, 50 of your shows.
Barrett:Yeah, I'd even say more than that.
Barrett:I think so far this year, I think Zach and I have done two episodes on our own, but the third.
Barrett:So the first episode and the third episode were Zach and myself.
Barrett:And then the last episode we have Matt Velardebo.
Barrett:And then this episode we're gonna have Donald Brock Jr.
Barrett:Who is the coordinator for the Coastal Comic Con.
Barrett:You know, so.
Barrett:So, yes, I would say that we got into a situation after last.
Barrett:Well, started a lot.
Barrett:It really started last year of bringing guests in more consistently.
Amie:So how do you do that?
Amie:So you went from being just you to you and Zach to you and Zach and Trent, and then back down to just you and Zach.
Amie:But in all of that, like, early on, the guests that you had on were like your friends.
Amie:They would be.
Amie:How did you start doing that transition to where you would have.
Amie:And not that your friends are not legitimate guests, but like these legitimate guests, you'd have people who you didn't know prior to them coming on your show necessarily, and they would want to be on the.
Amie:All about nothing.
Barrett:So it really just depended on.
Barrett:I used Reddit a lot to reach out.
Barrett:There are some subreddits that you can find where there are people out there that.
Barrett:That want to be guests on podcasts, and then there are subreddits that you can find podcast hosts that want to come on other podcasts to talk about their podcast.
Barrett:So it's.
Barrett:It's sort of a.
Barrett:A growth through, organic, growth through the community.
Amie:So when did it shift from you finding people who wanted to be on your podcast to people saying, hey, I want to be on your podcast?
Barrett:I think when we started interviewing a lot of the candidates for office, our.
Barrett:The podcast name got out there to the point where we would have.
Barrett:I'd have candidates reach out to me and have campaign managers reach out and say that they wanted to get their candidate on the show.
Barrett:For a lot of people, this is the first time they'd ever been on a podcast or been on anything.
Barrett:You know, this is their first time running for office.
Barrett:And so it was sort of because they had seen what we had done.
Barrett:It made it a very easy conversation for people to come on the show and have.
Amie:But you don't just do political interviews either.
Amie:So I get that, like, Preach is in the political world, but he is also Hector, and some of these Other.
Barrett:Folks that you've had on, I think for a number of interviews, like Chef Hector, he just had an extremely interesting story to tell.
Amie:So have you found that the podcast has been not just a podcast then as it's been a whole networking thing for you?
Barrett:I have.
Barrett:I have made some genuinely, I've made some friends that are acquaintances, friends that.
Barrett:That I want to see do well and what it is that they want to do.
Barrett:And I think that for Preach is already successful.
Barrett:Priest Jacobs is he.
Barrett:He's consistently voted best at Columbia, whether it's DJ or artist or, you know.
Barrett:Now he owns his own art gallery, Soul House Art Gallery on Lincoln street in Columbia.
Barrett:I'm working with him right now to try and get.
Barrett:Trying to get him on a podcast of his own that.
Barrett:That will publish consistently.
Amie:Okay.
Amie:So do you find that that's something.
Amie:And I kind of.
Amie:We've kind of veered off here.
Amie:But now that you've got big media, which again we kind of already talked about what that is, do you find that you are looking for up and coming.
Barrett:Yeah.
Amie:Like that you want to continue to grow, not just the all about nothing, but also that big media brand where you are a.
Amie:I don't know what you're doing.
Amie:A host for podcasts.
Barrett:Yeah, it's sort of a.
Barrett:It's sort of a conglomerate.
Amie:A conglomerate.
Barrett:An umbrella.
Amie:An umbrella.
Barrett:Yeah.
Amie:So we've got a little long winded now.
Amie:I don't actually know when we started.
Barrett:Oh goodness.
Amie:This was intended to be a little half hour.
Amie:We might have to do some editing.
Amie:I was hoping to not have to do any editing this episode, but we might have to do some editing.
Amie:Dear Listener, there was much editing, but.
Barrett:I just leave everything in he does.
Amie:That's why I'm behind on the all about nothing episodes.
Barrett:Can't go longer than 2 hours and 20 minutes.
Barrett:I think our longest episode in the last year has maybe been like two hours, but we published that in two blocks.
Amie:So we've talked now about some of the behind the scenes things.
Amie:What is the most gratifying part of doing podcasts to you?
Barrett:I know she's gonna make a face when I say this, but I have no ego.
Amie:She in fact did make a face.
Barrett:I don't.
Barrett:It's.
Barrett:It's not ego when it's.
Barrett:When it's real and natural and just what it is.
Barrett:But if.
Barrett:If people listen to the show, they listen.
Barrett:If they don't, they don't.
Barrett:You know, it's not my place to force someone to do anything like that.
Barrett:So I guess the most gratifying, honestly, the most gratifying is when we have a good interview and I've got a really good show to publish that I think, you know, that I enjoyed.
Barrett:Now, I don't ever go back and listen to these episodes.
Barrett:I don't.
Barrett:I don't go back and listen to my own show because I hear all of the things that I do that are like, you know, I.
Barrett:And.
Barrett:And breathing and noises and things like that.
Barrett:So I tend to just record it, publish it, and then it's out there, because if someone asks me if I remember, oh, you said such and such during one of your shows.
Barrett:I don't remember.
Amie:He doesn't remember.
Amie:So it's gratifying to you because I feel like you've answered my question.
Barrett:I just get my.
Barrett:My gratification is publishing a good show.
Barrett:I get gratification out meeting somebody new and having an interesting conversation with somebody, even if I don't know anything about what it is that I'm having them on the show for.
Barrett:You had Winnie Tata on your show.
Amie:She's so good.
Barrett:I had.
Barrett:We had Winnie on our show, and I had not read any of her books and, And.
Barrett:And nothing against her.
Barrett:It's.
Barrett:It's not usually my style or, or the.
Barrett:The genre that I read being fantasy, but she was a fantastic guest.
Amie:What is the hardest part about being in the podcast world?
Barrett:Scheduling.
Barrett:Scheduling is one of the most difficult, especially if you're trying to do it with guests, sometimes even with your own co hosts.
Barrett:Everybody has their own lives, and, you know, none of us, none of it.
Barrett:This isn't our job.
Barrett:We do this because it is.
Barrett:It's gratifying for us.
Barrett:It's gratifying to put something out there.
Barrett:I think I can speak for Zach.
Barrett:You know, we like for people to notice the show and maybe mention that they listened, but at the same time, we're.
Barrett:We're primarily doing it just as good therapy for us because it lets us air our grievances about.
Amie:Or.
Barrett:Or air.
Barrett:Air our grievances into the world about things.
Barrett:And sometimes, you know, we find that we've gotten to a point where whatever subject was irritating us, we talk about on the podcast, and it's like, oh, it's not that big a deal.
Amie:I think for me, the hardest part is I don't feel like I can keep the drive.
Amie:Like, we talk.
Amie:We started out the show talking about how much work goes into a podcast.
Amie:And I think for me, like, I sometimes struggle with.
Amie:I need to put an episode out, but like, I'm not there mentally.
Amie:Like I'm not in podcast.
Barrett:And then.
Amie:And then one day I'll be in podcast most mode and the website's getting updated.
Amie:You're getting post on all my social media.
Amie:Like, that consistency and that.
Amie:The consistency, I think, is the hardest part for me, I think.
Barrett:So I think that's part of where I benefit my personality.
Barrett:Because if I just say we're recording every Wednesday, we're gonna put out an episode every Monday, then I have, you know, so Wednesday at 6:00 gets here and I jump online and Zach jumps online and we record if we have guests.
Barrett:When I say scheduling, it's the scheduling with guests that sometimes becomes more difficult because, you know, whatever it is that we might be talking to them about might actually be their life.
Barrett:That it might actually be what they do on a daily day basis.
Barrett:That's what it brings in the money for them.
Barrett:So while they are always happy to be on the show, making it work for their schedule is sometimes difficult.
Barrett:So I think, you know, it makes it.
Barrett:Doing it online, doing it remotely means that we can.
Barrett:We can interview almost anybody in the world.
Barrett:Doing it remotely and online means that we can almost always schedule it for any time.
Barrett:So that has made things a lot easier.
Barrett:But, yeah, I get not having that drive because Wednesday at 5:00 comes along, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I have nothing to talk about on this episode.
Barrett:But then I get online with Zach and we just talk about baloney.
Barrett:And I mean, we've had discussions about Whip, not whipped cream.
Barrett:We've had discussions about Miracle Whip and how atrocious of a chemical grouping that is.
Barrett:And we both agree.
Barrett:Are you a Miracle Whip fan?
Amie:I'm not a Miracle Whip.
Barrett:Miracle Whip is for salad dressing.
Barrett:It's not.
Barrett:It's not for sandwiches.
Amie:I think people in the south eat Miracle Whip.
Barrett:I thought I've seen some of you people in the South.
Barrett:I.
Barrett:I get it.
Barrett:We.
Barrett:Y'all eat Miracle Whip.
Amie:No, no, we eat mayonnaise and probably Dukes if you're from the South.
Barrett:But yeah, I'm a Duke's.
Barrett:I'm a Duke's mayonnaise guy.
Amie:This episode is not brought to you by Duke's Mayonnaise, but it could be Duke's Mayonnaise.
Barrett:Duke's Mayonnaise.
Barrett:Available Publix food line, all of your Walmarts, So Costco's got a big jar of Duke's Mayonnaise.
Amie:It's.
Barrett:It's like five gallons.
Amie:Keeping you on subject I'm trying to close up this episode.
Amie:Can't you hear me trying to close up this episode?
Amie:This is what I talked about the other day when I said I'm not a great interviewer, which is a shame because I'm doing more interviews.
Barrett:You know what else you can use Dukes on?
Amie:Oh my gosh, nothing.
Amie:And trying to close this episode.
Amie:This is going to be a 30 minute episode.
Amie:I don't know what we're at, but I know it's more than 30 minutes.
Barrett:It is more than 30.
Amie:So, my wonderlings, I appreciate you being here today.
Amie:I hope that you've learned something.
Amie:I hope that I get this is my traditional style episode, but I hope that it has brought you some insight into the process and what goes on and what goes into creating a podcast.
Amie:If you're interested in making a podcast yet, I'm happy to talk to you.
Amie:I'm sure Barrett is happy to talk to you.
Amie:Yeah.
Amie:If you have ideas, questions, or you just want to bounce things off, you know, that community, that podcast community is a good place to start.
Amie:And we're not, we're not a bad place to start.
Amie:So.
Barrett:And if you're, if you're a psychologist or if you're a hypnotist, I think you should definitely get in touch with her because I think that would be an interesting episode to watch someone hypnotize a me.
Amie:I'm not doing that, but I would like to talk to a hypnotist.
Amie:That'd be fun.
Amie:Anyway, so thank you so much, my wonderlings, for tuning in today.
Amie:And until next time, be safe, be kind, and stay curious.
Barrett:The welcome to Wonderland podcast is copyrighted by Ami Bland and is part of Big Media.
Barrett:This podcast was recorded at Big Media's home studio in Lexington, South Carolina.
Amie:Because.
Barrett:Because Ami is too cheap to invest in her own space.
Barrett:Any thoughts or opinions expressed as part of this production or those of the hostess unless otherwise indicated.
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Amie:Oh God, that felt so long.
Barrett:Well, an hour and only an hour and three minutes.
Amie:I told you there was a lot of editing.
Barrett:Oh, can we do it one more time?
Amie:Shut up.