Episode 39

Episode 39 | Tattoos! With Jason Blair, Stick 'N' Poke Tattoos

Welcome to Wonder Land, where Amii takes dive deep into the fascinating world of tattooing. This week, tattoo artist Jason Blair shares his expertise and insights and Amii discusses the history, techniques, and cultural significance of tattoos. We explore the evolution of tattooing tools, from ancient methods to modern machines, and discuss the various styles that have emerged over time, such as American traditional and Japanese tattoos. Jason also sheds light on the intricacies of becoming a tattoo artist, including the importance of apprenticeship and the challenges of running a tattoo shop. Join us as we uncover the stories behind tattoos and what motivates people to mark their bodies with this timeless art.

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Transcript
Amie:

Welcome to Wonderland, the podcast where I go down the rabbit hole to research things you may be curious about.

Amie:

My name is Amie, and I'll be your guide on this trip to Wonderland.

Amie:

Hi there, my wonderlings, and welcome back for another trip down the rabbit hole.

Amie:

This week, I've invited Jason Blair, tattoo artist and owner of Stick and Poke Tattoos, to give us some insight into the world of tattooing.

Amie:

But before we get to that, first, I found myself wondering about the history of tattoos.

Barrett:

I wonder, I wonder, I wonder, I.

Amie:

Wonder, I wonder, wonder.

Chris:

Hmm.

Amie:

I wonder, I wonder, I wonder.

Amie:

Before we get into the history of tattooing, let's talk about the word tattoo itself.

Amie:

How do you think tattooing got its name?

Barrett:

I have no idea.

Barrett:

I don't even know where it came from.

Dana:

I'm not sure how tattoo got its name, but I feel like it was probably based on some old foreign language.

Chris:

I don't know.

Chris:

I assume it's a derivative of some original word.

Amie:

Guessing that it was potentially a word from a different language was a good guess.

Amie:

Multiple sources cite that the word tattoo originated from a Samoan or perhaps Tahitian word tatao, tatau, which means to mark.

Amie:

It has been suggested that tatau is a form of onomatopoeia, where tat was the tapping sound of the tattoo instrument into the skin and ow was the cry of pain from the person being tattooed.

Amie:

James Cook's first voyage in:

Amie:

And if you don't know who Captain James Cook is, then go give welcome to Wonderland episode 27 a listen.

Amie:

It's a fun episode, all about pirates, and we talk about Captain Cook while down that rabbit hole.

Amie:

As language evolves, ta tao eventually became tattoo to English speakers, and that's how we still refer to it today.

Amie:

eared in print as long ago as:

Amie:

But how long do you think people have been tattooing their bodies?

Dana:

I'm not sure on how many years, but I know back in ancient times, like, people like the Samoans and stuff in their heritage and culture have been tattooing forever.

Barrett:

Six thousand years, thousands of years, they.

Chris:

Found mummies with tattoos, very ancient mummies.

Amie:

The answer to this is definitely more than 255 years and could be as many as the 6,000 years that Barrett suggested.

Amie:

But until the:

Amie:

This was due in large part to evidence in ancient Egyptian art and mummies.

Amie:

In:

Amie:

coppersmith who lived between:

Eli:

It's been hailed as one of the century's most important archaeological finds.

Eli:

The body of a Bronze Age mountaineer, which scientists believe could be 4,000 years old.

Eli:

The corpse was discovered last week frozen in the ice of a glacier on the Austro Italian border.

Eli:

Since then, scientists have been supervising its removal.

Eli:

As well as the body, archaeologists have uncovered the remnants of clothing, special mountaineering equipment and fire lighting tools.

Eli:

Scientists have had to work quickly to preserve the remains and prevent them from deteriorating.

Eli:

The body has now been taken from its glacial grave to Innsbruck University, where the cause of death will be determined.

Eli:

Apart from injuries on the back and head, the corpse is remarkably well preserved and even has its front teeth.

Amie:

And surprisingly, this mummified corpse, who was named Otzi, had 61 tattoos adorning his flesh.

Amie:

His tattoos consisted mostly of various lines, and the speculation based on the bone wear and placement was that they were pain relief treatments.

Amie:

So ancient Egyptian women tattooed for fertility and health during pregnancy, and Otzi was likely tattooed as a form of pain management.

Amie:

What are some of the traditional reasons people get tattoos?

Barrett:

Tribal markings, family crests, something to represent an event or a loved one.

Dana:

I think traditionally people got tattoos for, like, status symbols, stuff like that.

Dana:

And people get in remembrance of people, they'll get tattoos.

Amie:

Historically, there's evidence of tattooing throughout many cultures, but their meanings and significance vary between the cultures.

Amie:

In North America, the Inuit have a long history of tattooing.

Amie:

The transition from girl to woman was marked upon a woman's face after her first menstrual cycle to represent beauty, strength and maturity.

Amie:

Other indigenous people are documented as to having used tattoos to help alleviate toothaches by tattooing the path a nerve followed from their jaw to their tooth.

Amie:

Plusage.

Amie:

Men were tattooed after accomplishing major feats in battle and were a physical indication of their elevated status among the tribe.

Amie:

In ancient China, tattoos were considered to be barbaric, not a symbol of pride.

Amie:

The Chinese character for prisoner was often Tattooed on the faces of convicted criminals.

Amie:

As late as the Qing dynasty, In a classic novel, water margin, a character's sentence for his crimes includes having the nature of his crimes tattooed upon his face.

Amie:

Similarly, slaves in China were also sometimes marked to show ownership.

Amie:

In Japan, however, tattooing for spiritual and decorative purposes dates back to at least the paleolithic period.

Amie:

By the 17th century, however, tattoos were used as a mark for criminals and for manual workers and prostitutes to communicate their status.

Amie:

In:

Amie:

Not all Asian countries found tattooing to be barbaric or limited to criminals, however.

Amie:

In the Philippines, for example, tattoos were a symbol of tribal identity as well as social or wealth status.

Amie:

Sometimes they were believed to have magical abilities.

Amie:

And I don't think we can talk about tattooing's history without talking about Samoa, since the very word we use to describe the art is a Samoan word.

Amie:

en tattooing by hand for over:

Amie:

Samoan tattoos include the pea for males and the malu for females, each boasting unique designs and cultural significance.

Amie:

The pea is the traditional male tattoo that covers the body from the waist to the the knees and is a rite of passage for Samoan men, symbolizing their transition into adulthood.

Amie:

For women, the malu typically covers the thighs and is a symbol of protection and service to the community.

Amie:

The designs include waves, tiki, and animals, which tell stories and convey the person's identity and heritage.

Amie:

If tattooing has been around for thousands of years, have you ever wondered how they were applied?

Amie:

What tools were historically used for tattooing?

Amie:

What tools are used now?

Barrett:

Maybe just a really sharp piece of rock and some organic dye.

Amie:

What tools are used now?

Barrett:

Some sort of a pen of sorts.

Jason:

With ink and needles?

Barrett:

Yeah, sure.

Barrett:

Needle, yeah, needles.

Dana:

I think some kind of stick or bone that was sharpened into a point may have been used with maybe plants or soot or something as the dye for the tattoos back in the day.

Dana:

And they use tattoo machines now.

Dana:

Not sure what that consists of, but I do know it's a machine and not a gun.

Chris:

I mean, it's not like a hammer and a chisel, but it's almost kind of like that with a pointy end that they tap with another tool to drive the ink in.

Amie:

What tools are used now?

Chris:

Tattoo needle guns.

Amie:

The reason that some cultures have found the art of tattoo to be barbaric is because the means of tattooing is violent and painful.

Amie:

Scientific testing on Otzi's tattoos indicate that they were created by making small puncture wounds and incisions in the skin and rubbing pigment made of fireplace ash or soot into the broken skin.

Amie:

The women of ancient Egypt reportedly used bone or metal or copper needles and pigments made from henna, charcoal and crushed insects.

Amie:

The Samoans used a set of finely carved bone or tusk tools called otonga to tap a pigment called amu into the skin.

Amie:

Amu was created by smoking nuts on the fire with a coconut shell above it to collect the soot.

Amie:

The soot was then mixed with sugar water to create a paste and then was sealed and cured for at least a year before it was used.

Amie:

There are some Samoan tattoo artists, or tifuga, who still practice this method of tattooing by hand.

Amie:

And while homemade tattoos are still a thing that some people do today with ink and a needle, we'll actually hear some more about that in just a minute when we talk to Jason.

Amie:

The tools for modern tattooing are a far cry from their predecessors.

Amie:

Nowadays, if you go for a tattoo, you'll go to a shop that uses a tattoo machine which uses electromagnetic coils to move an armature bar with barred needle groupings up and down.

Amie:

The needles are used to open the skin so the ink can flow in.

Amie:

hat Thomas Edison invented in:

Amie:

In:

Amie:

O'Reilly would eventually patent a tube and needle system to provide an ink reservoir for this modified pen.

Amie:

Since Oreillys version, the tattoo machine has evolved to be lighter, nimbler and safer.

Amie:

They've also evolved to be more precise for whatever the need is, whether just line work or shading and everything in between.

Amie:

The modern tattoo machines allow artists to tattoo people with extreme precision and a variety of tattoo styles.

Amie:

And as far as styles go, there are so many.

Amie:

What are some typical tattoo styles?

Chris:

There's a bunch American traditional, neo traditional, new school geometric, fine line, black and gray portraits.

Dana:

There's a bunch portrait realism, neo traditional, American traditional, geometric, tribal, Japanese.

Amie:

There are literally dozens upon dozens of styles with new styles being created all the time.

Amie:

But there are some that are well known and we'll talk briefly about some of those.

Amie:

American traditional or old school tattoo uses bold lines and a limited color palette.

Amie:

Think your stereotypical sailor style tattoos.

Guest:

I Popeye the sailor man I Popeye.

Amie:

The sailor man Neo traditional tattoo is essentially a more modern version of American Traditional these more modern takes on the American traditional tattoo use different line weights, more subtle gradients, additional colors and more intricate details.

Amie:

New School is more than just modern.

Amie:

It's almost cartoony look uses more varied and vibrant colors and exaggerated features.

Amie:

Black and gray is very much what it sounds like.

Amie:

Where no color is used.

Amie:

Subject matter varies, but the only coloring is black and shades of gray.

Amie:

Realism is another one that is exactly what it sounds like.

Amie:

The tattoo looks just like whatever the subject is in real life.

Amie:

Japanese tattoos traditionally were done without machines using a hand carved technique.

Amie:

But now most people just get the large bright cultural symbols tattooed with the machine.

Amie:

Tribal tattoos initially were used to mark someone as a part of a specific family or clan, but modern designs just pull the design and shapes from those historic tattoos for inspiration.

Amie:

Script or lettering is just that, words written out into the skin.

Amie:

There are so many more, from watercolor to surrealism to portraits, from 3D to biomechanical and graffiti and so on.

Amie:

There are so many styles of design and different artists may specialize in only a specific type of design.

Amie:

Now that we've covered some of the historical context behind tattooing and there's a lot more that we could discuss, check out my website, www.wtwlpod.com for some additional information.

Amie:

Let's talk to Jason from Stick and Poke Tattoos in Clemson, South Carolina for more insight into the modern world of tattooing.

Guest:

Hi there my wonderlings.

Guest:

Welcome back for another episode of welcome to Wonderland.

Guest:

If you follow me or welcome to Wonderland on Social.

Guest:

You know that last weekend I got a new tattoo which made me wonder more about the world of tattooing.

Guest:

I thought it would be great to get some insight into tattooing from someone who does it for a living.

Guest:

Today I'm excited to introduce Jason Blair, tattoo artist and owner of Stick and Poke Tattoos in Clemson, South Carolina.

Guest:

Hey Jason.

Jason:

Hey, how's it going?

Guest:

It's good.

Guest:

Tell us a little bit about yourself.

Guest:

I'm excited you're here, but tell, tell my listeners who you are, what you do, all that good stuff.

Jason:

My name is Jason Blair.

Jason:

Like she said, I'm the owner of Stick and Poke Tattoos.

Jason:

Me and my wife own it.

Jason:

We've owned it for going on three years now.

Jason:

I've been tattooing on and off since I was 13 years old.

Jason:

Been a professional tattoo artist now for eight years.

Jason:

I do a lot of tap outs.

Jason:

Tap outs are usually five hours or eight hours.

Jason:

I do a lot of COVID up tattoos, pretty much anything that comes in the door that you can think of.

Jason:

I tattoo Minus.

Jason:

I usually send portraits and stuff like that down the road to somebody that does that special.

Jason:

A specialty artist.

Guest:

So, 13, that.

Guest:

That feels really young.

Guest:

Were you using a Tattoo gun at 13?

Guest:

Are you like, or old school with, like a safety pin or.

Jason:

Safety pin?

Jason:

Yeah.

Jason:

Little needle and thread.

Jason:

That's what we use.

Jason:

That's where the name come from.

Jason:

Stick and poke tattoos.

Jason:

So.

Guest:

Oh, okay.

Guest:

So tell me, kind of take it back to when you were 13.

Guest:

Then what was the very first thing that you were like?

Guest:

You know what I'm going to do?

Guest:

I'm going to.

Guest:

I'm going to do.

Guest:

What did you do?

Guest:

What did.

Guest:

What was that?

Guest:

What did you tattoo when you were 13?

Jason:

Well, I tattooed across.

Jason:

I don't think I really did it.

Jason:

I.

Jason:

It wasn't like a.

Jason:

I think it was more of a rebellion thing.

Guest:

Did you do the cross on yourself or did you do it on someone else?

Jason:

On me.

Guest:

Okay.

Guest:

Did it hurt?

Jason:

No, it didn't hurt.

Jason:

I kind of like it.

Guest:

Okay, so.

Jason:

I don't know.

Jason:

I kind of like it.

Guest:

So from 13, when you were doing it with a needle and thread, where to from there.

Jason:

Let's see.

Jason:

Djj, where I did some more needle and thread tattoos.

Jason:

Then I learned how to make one with a Walkman, like a little Sony Walkman radio.

Jason:

You can take the little motor out and use a little Bic pin.

Jason:

And there's all kind of little ways you can make homemade machines and stuff.

Jason:

Um, I learned that from one of my uncles on my mother's side.

Jason:

And from there I was like, okay.

Guest:

Okay, so when did you actually use your first tattoo gun, like, legitimately?

Guest:

What they have whatever they use for.

Jason:

Tattooing, a legitimate machine.

Jason:

I was probably about 18.

Guest:

Okay, so.

Guest:

So when you were 13, and then when you were at DJJ and then 18 with the actual tattoo gun, did you know that that's what you wanted to do was tattoos?

Jason:

No, I didn't.

Jason:

I mean, really, it was just a way to make money at the time.

Jason:

It wasn't really something.

Jason:

I wasn't really thinking about making a career out of it.

Guest:

So when did that shift for you?

Jason:

Probably about eight years ago when I was in college and realized that because of my past, I couldn't really get a job anywhere.

Jason:

So I was like, alright, let's shift focus back to tattooing.

Jason:

There's nobody can stop me from working.

Jason:

Then there's nobody can stop me from anything.

Jason:

So.

Guest:

So what does it take to be a tattoo artist?

Guest:

Kind of take us from the beginning to, you know, from the moment where you're like, I think I might want to be a tattoo artist.

Guest:

What does a person have to do.

Jason:

If you want to be really successful in tattooing, you can be the greatest artist in the world, man, but that doesn't mean that you're going to be successful.

Jason:

It's got a lot to do with your personality, the way you deal with people.

Jason:

You got to pretty much kind of dedicate your life to it.

Jason:

I mean, I work around 100 hours every week, give or take.

Jason:

I mean, it takes a lot of hours to own a tattoo shop.

Jason:

So if you want to get, you know, it takes a lot of dedication, man.

Jason:

Like, I'm not gonna say it's just art.

Jason:

It takes a lot more than just art.

Jason:

It takes, like I said, it takes personality.

Jason:

You gotta know how to deal to deal with people.

Jason:

You got to know how to deal with the public to be able to advertise your.

Jason:

Your product.

Jason:

And then you got to put out a good product.

Jason:

Just because you put put out, you got to be consistent, man.

Jason:

That's the best thing.

Jason:

Consistency.

Guest:

Okay, so let's say you've got the right personality for tattooing.

Guest:

Like, I guess you have to be a people person to some degree, and I assume it's probably best if you have some artistic inclination.

Guest:

The first step then is an apprenticeship.

Guest:

Right.

Guest:

You have Cali at your shop, who's an apprentice.

Guest:

So talk to us about what the apprenticeship is like.

Jason:

Yep.

Jason:

So apprenticeship.

Jason:

Now, they're kind of.

Jason:

They're not.

Jason:

They're not that rough like they used to be.

Jason:

People are really sensitive, so you can't.

Jason:

You can't be as tough as you used to be.

Jason:

But anyway, an apprenticeship at the shop, pretty much, you're one.

Jason:

You're bringing her in to teach her the proper sterilization.

Jason:

That's the number one thing in tattooing, is being sterile, keeping your clean.

Jason:

You teach a proper sterilization, then you teach her techniques.

Jason:

It takes a lot of hours.

Jason:

It takes a thousand hours.

Jason:

By the time she's done doing an apprenticeship, she should be able to completely fully set up.

Jason:

She should know the proper, proper sterilization techniques, proper disposal techniques.

Jason:

After you're done tattooing, she should know how to run the shop, basically from start to finish, pretty much what I do, minus she's an employee.

Guest:

So a thousand hours feels like a lot.

Guest:

I feel like there are lots of jobs that don't require that much time.

Guest:

That.

Guest:

Is that a strict guideline or.

Jason:

Yeah, it's a strict guideline.

Jason:

It's a DHEC guideline.

Jason:

It's it used to be 2, 000 hours and they changed it to a thousand hours.

Jason:

So the thousand hours, I'm not going to say that it's.

Jason:

It might be a long a thousand, might be a lot in today's society because you don't have a.

Jason:

Like, okay, so from eight years ago when I started, you had an autoclave.

Jason:

Like, I used metal tubes, I use coal machines.

Jason:

I used all kind of stuff that took a lot of extra steps and a lot of extra precautions to properly clean.

Jason:

Now it doesn't like the machines come.

Jason:

They, we use pins, so they come with like grips that you can put on and it slides up over it.

Jason:

It's already like you close it off at the end.

Jason:

It's sterile.

Jason:

You know, when you take it off, you wipe the machine down.

Jason:

It's a lot less process that you have to do.

Jason:

So, yeah, a thousand hours may be a little excessive, but at the same time, a thousand hours gives them enough time that they can fully understand how a shop works.

Jason:

And in a thousand hours, you'll know if you can be a tattoo artist or not.

Guest:

I believe that.

Guest:

So I just did the math over here and Barrett, check behind me because I'm bad at math.

Guest:

But a thousand hours, if she did it, if an Apprentice did it, 40 hours a week.

Guest:

So was there kind of full time job hours?

Guest:

I'm looking at 25 weeks.

Guest:

Is that right?

Guest:

Like, that's, that's basically half a year, six months that someone is training before they can even really tattoo a real life person.

Jason:

Yep.

Jason:

Well, so, all right, so the thing with, with an apprentice, all right, they can tattoo during a thousand hours.

Jason:

You have to be 21 years old in order to be able to tattoo on a person.

Jason:

If you're not 21, you can be, you can still be an apprentice under 21, but you can only tattoo fake skin and, and learn proper sterilization and stuff of a shop, the techniques, how to run a shop, stuff like that.

Jason:

You can actually tattoo a, a physical person.

Jason:

You can tattoo, they make little things of fake skin.

Jason:

They make it all the way from like a dollar a sheet to $40 a sheet.

Jason:

So I mean, it can get, you know, really realistic, like real skin.

Jason:

So I mean, like, there's things that an apprentice can do this under 21, to learn the technique.

Jason:

And then when they turn 21, they can come straight into tattooing.

Jason:

If they are not, if they're over 21, they can come in as an apprentice.

Jason:

And after so many hours, when the artist feels comfortable, the artist can supervise them.

Jason:

And they can tattoo.

Guest:

Okay, so supervised tattoos.

Guest:

Like you couldn't be like, all right, you got this for the day, I'm going out.

Guest:

But you would have to sit in.

Jason:

There and can't leave them at the shop.

Jason:

No, like they can be in the room by themselves.

Jason:

As long as I'm coming in and I'm checking on them and making sure they're, everything's good.

Jason:

But I couldn't leave them at the shop.

Jason:

No, I have to be present.

Guest:

Okay, so you've got to be 21 years old to tattoo.

Guest:

Does it require a license?

Jason:

The shop itself has to be licensed.

Jason:

The shop has to have a business license.

Jason:

And it has to be inspected by DHEC and be permitted to be a tattoo shop.

Jason:

Through them, the artists themselves, they have to have the thousand hours as an apprentice in South Carolina.

Jason:

And you have to have bloodborne pathogens for infection control for tattooing and body piercing.

Jason:

And you had to be CPR and first aid certified.

Guest:

And how often do you have to recertify in those things, Retake the bloodborne pathogen, retake the cpr.

Jason:

CPR is every two years.

Jason:

And then the bloodborne pathogen is every year.

Jason:

It's every year.

Jason:

There's other states for it.

Guest:

Is it like an online thing or you have to go someplace for it.

Jason:

Or you can go.

Jason:

I mean there's places you can go.

Jason:

Like I don't know if Greenville Tech still offers.

Jason:

Greenville Tech used to offer the course and you can actually go in and do the bloodborne pathogens.

Jason:

If you're working in a tattoo shop, you deal with bloodborne's every single day.

Jason:

So once you get the certification, like you're, you're literally dealing with it.

Jason:

You're just pretty much kind of like a refresher course every year is what it is.

Jason:

In Florida, when I tattooed down there, it's a little different.

Jason:

You go through this four hour course online, they come out, they inspect your stuff and then your bloodborne pathogen is good for life.

Jason:

You don't ever have to redo it.

Jason:

You don't ever have to because they know like you're dealing with it every single day.

Jason:

So.

Guest:

Right, okay, so you've got your bloodborne pathogen, you've got your cpr, you've got your.

Guest:

Do tattoo artists have to do this or just a shop owner?

Jason:

Everybody in the shop, Everybody.

Guest:

Okay.

Guest:

Thousand hours and then you are ready to tattoo.

Guest:

So what do you have to have to tattoo?

Guest:

I assume you need the gun.

Guest:

It's a special gun, right?

Jason:

Definitely not a gun.

Jason:

This is where it gets this is where it gets fun for me.

Jason:

Because as a professional artist, we don't call them guns.

Jason:

That's usually for the people that work outside of the shops and we call them.

Jason:

I'm not real disrespectful to them because I came from there.

Jason:

But they're called scratchers.

Jason:

So it's a machine.

Jason:

Yeah, you have to have your machine.

Jason:

You have to have the license.

Jason:

Like I said, being a licensed shop, machine ink.

Jason:

And depending on what the shop supplies, you're going to have to have all your own needles, your gloves, stuff like that.

Jason:

Usually shops provide.

Jason:

We provide like the bibs and stuff for your setup.

Jason:

We provide a D.

Jason:

Razors, Saran Wrap, like the gym.

Jason:

Yeah.

Jason:

Green soap.

Hannah:

All your cleaning products.

Jason:

Yeah, all the cleaning products and stuff for the shop.

Jason:

Mainly the artist just has to bring.

Jason:

So at my shop, I, I prefer the artist to have their own chair, their own toolbox.

Jason:

Usually if an artist has their own chair and their own toolbox, they've been doing it for a while.

Jason:

You kind of know, like, all right, they're, they're not new to the game.

Jason:

So chair, toolbox.

Jason:

If you worked at my shop, your own machine, needles.

Jason:

I supply paper towels.

Jason:

A D.

Jason:

You got to buy your own ink.

Jason:

And that's pretty much it.

Jason:

Because everything else, like the shop provides pretty much everything that you need.

Jason:

Ink caps, all that.

Guest:

Are there different brands on the ink?

Guest:

Like, do different artists use different brands or is there just kind of like a standard brand that everybody uses?

Jason:

Yeah, so there's a lot of different brands.

Jason:

You have like Eternals, skin candy.

Jason:

You have the industry, Inc.

Jason:

World Famous.

Jason:

World.

Jason:

I like World famous.

Jason:

World famous is really good.

Jason:

I like dynamic for black ink.

Jason:

It's hard to beat dynamic when it comes to the blacks.

Jason:

And then I use their heavy white.

Jason:

It's.

Jason:

It's really kick ass.

Jason:

Back in the day, Starbright was a really good brand.

Jason:

We used to use it a lot because the white was phenomenal.

Jason:

You have like mom's Millennial.

Jason:

I think it's Millennial Millennium.

Jason:

I can't.

Jason:

Yeah, mom.

Jason:

Something like that.

Jason:

We don't use it.

Jason:

I don't use it.

Guest:

So how do you decide?

Guest:

Like, is it trial and error?

Guest:

You're like, oh, I got this new ink and then you tattoo someone.

Guest:

You're like, oh, I don't really love that.

Jason:

You do a lot of research, man.

Jason:

I mean, you research the ink and see sometimes you got to make sure one, that there's nothing in it that people are going to be allergic to.

Jason:

Sometimes, like now everything's Vegan?

Jason:

Yeah, now everything's vegan.

Jason:

So it's not like it used to be used to.

Jason:

You have to watch a lot of the reds.

Jason:

You'd have to watch some of the black ink that is like really dark black inks.

Jason:

Because, like the stuff that they mix it with or the stuff that they use to make it, people are really like, you being fair skinned, it would like some of the black inks and red inks that we used to use.

Jason:

It would really tear your skin up.

Jason:

Whereas now it's more.

Jason:

They're.

Jason:

They're more hypoallergenic.

Jason:

They're not as it's.

Jason:

It's not as hard.

Jason:

The inks are way better too.

Jason:

Like, the consistency of the inks, the way they flow, it's a lot better.

Guest:

Okay, so this sounds pretty expensive to get into.

Guest:

So I know that tattoo artists, I mean, you started obviously with the, I assume just like ink, pen ink and a needle, but like to legitimately do it, to be a good artist.

Guest:

This sounds expensive.

Guest:

You're giving up six months, give or take, to be an apprentice, which is unpaid, and then you're buying all of these tools to get started.

Guest:

A fledgling artist.

Guest:

What would they kind of be looking at ballpark and cost an apprentice?

Hannah:

21 is paid over?

Jason:

Yeah, over 21 is.

Jason:

I mean, they are paid.

Jason:

Okay, if you were just trying to say you.

Jason:

Let's say you were 20 years old and you had somebody that would be willing to give you an apprenticeship, you know, you follow all the rules.

Jason:

You're not going to tattoo anyone.

Jason:

You're not bringing no money.

Jason:

I mean, obviously you're not making any money for the shop.

Jason:

I would say somewhere around:

Jason:

I've got at least $8,000 worth of machines in that one booth.

Jason:

The chair that.

Jason:

So that's $10,000 with the chair.

Jason:

Not counting the audio.

Jason:

Like, I probably have, I'm gonna say $25,000 or better in equipment in my, my booth that I use daily.

Hannah:

Including.

Guest:

Holy cow.

Jason:

Yeah.

Jason:

And that's not including.

Jason:

That's probably not including the inks.

Guest:

Geez Louise, are Those expensive?

Jason:

Like $3,000 worth of ink, man.

Guest:

Okay, so when someone goes for a tattoo and they're like, you know, it's going to be $300, $400, whatever it is.

Guest:

Really, that is maybe a little cheap considering how much it cost to get into it.

Jason:

And I mean, not just that.

Jason:

So you have that aspect of it on supply.

Jason:

So I mean I'm obviously established.

Jason:

I probably spend somewhere around five to six hundred dollars on my supplies a month.

Jason:

Not, okay, shop supplies on Jason's inks that he uses, needles that he has to replace, Stuff like that.

Jason:

Then I mean, yeah.

Jason:

So you figure, yeah, 300 is pretty cheap.

Jason:

So I do, like I said, I do the tap outs.

Jason:

I do 500, I do five hours and I do eight hours.

Jason:

I do 300, $500.

Jason:

The average go around my area for an artist is somewhere around 125 to 150 an hour.

Guest:

Okay.

Jason:

You're automatically getting discounted coming there.

Jason:

And then people don't, they don't take into consideration like we have to pay power, water and rent.

Jason:

The rent alone for my building is $2,700 a month, not counting power and water.

Guest:

Right.

Guest:

So that, that leads me into one of my questions is what are some of the difficulties in owning a shop?

Guest:

Like being a shop owner versus just being an artist in someone else's shop.

Jason:

Owning a shop is a lot more difficult than just being an artist.

Jason:

When you're an artist, you just come in, you work a lot of times whoever owns a shop feeds you work.

Jason:

You know, they give you clients that come in like, you know, walk ins and stuff like that.

Jason:

Because all that, like most of the time shop a lot of times not all.

Jason:

So a lot of people don't get, don't get offended, nobody over this.

Jason:

A lot of shop owners don't.

Jason:

They're not like me.

Jason:

They're not tattooing all day.

Jason:

They're not doing what I'm doing all day long.

Jason:

I'm right there with the people.

Jason:

Like, I mean if, if I'm asking you to do it, I'm going to be right there with you.

Jason:

But a lot of them don't, they're, they're not doing that.

Jason:

So it's, it's more of a money thing.

Jason:

It's.

Jason:

When you're an artist, you don't have the stress of all the overheads.

Jason:

You don't have to worry about the people that are working for you if they're going to have a job the next day or the bill's going to be.

Jason:

You know what I mean?

Jason:

When you own the shop, you have to take into consideration however many employees you have working for you.

Jason:

Those lives depend on you every day to have a place to work.

Jason:

That's the difference in me and a lot of people that own a tattoo shop.

Jason:

That's why I'm there every day, all day.

Jason:

I Don't rely on my artist ever.

Jason:

Never going to, to be able to pay my bills.

Jason:

If I can't pay on myself, I probably don't need to own the stuff that I have.

Jason:

So they're beneficial for me.

Jason:

Yes, they help, help me achieve things that I'm trying to achieve.

Jason:

But owning the shop is a lot more stressful because you have them to worry about.

Jason:

You've got the overhead to worry about the supplies you have to worry about if something happens in the shop, like you have to be the one to handle it.

Jason:

There's a lot of, there's a lot of things that you have to worry about.

Guest:

Do you take on liability for your tattoo artists?

Guest:

So like if you've got a tattoo artist who breaks protocol and, you know, doesn't follow the procedures they're supposed to follow, or if they really hurt somebody or, you know, really botch a tattoo, like does that come back on the artist or on the shop owner?

Jason:

So most of the time that's going to come back on the artist because.

Jason:

Or yeah, on the artist.

Jason:

You sign a waiver when you come in the shop, obviously kind of taking, you know, giving, taking, getting rid of responsibility towards the shop, it's on the artist because the artist is individually employed at the shop.

Jason:

So now as far as me being the shop owner, if you botch a tattoo or you mess a tattoo up, like I will, I'm the responsible person that will fix it.

Jason:

Yeah, I'll honor that and I will make sure that the person has a great tattoo.

Guest:

Well, and the good thing is you do cover ups and things like that.

Guest:

So you're used to fixing tattoos?

Jason:

Yeah, I'm used to fixing them all the time.

Jason:

So.

Guest:

So talk to me about, obviously you're in the world of tattoos and I assume that you have to pretty regularly tattoo somebody who's getting their first tattoo.

Guest:

So for someone who's getting their first tattoo, what are some things that they need to think about?

Guest:

1, before they even come into the door, like before they even come in to talk to you.

Guest:

But then as they prepare to come in and what they should expect as someone who's a novice.

Jason:

First and foremost, don't listen to your friends.

Jason:

Ask the tattoo artist, ask the person that's going to be tattooing you.

Jason:

Because every artist, I don't care who you are, every artist has a certain way that they do things.

Jason:

They have a certain procedure they do for aftercare or they have a certain thing they want you to do before you come in.

Jason:

There are certain rules to that.

Jason:

Like the very first thing I'm going to tell you when you set an appointment with me, especially because I do the tap outs.

Jason:

So the very first thing I'm going to do is tell you a, be sure you eat a good meal before you come.

Jason:

Bring you a couple snacks with you.

Jason:

Be sure the night before that you're not out drinking and partying all night because it will cause, I mean, obviously your blood's not going to clot properly, so it's going to cause you to bleed more.

Jason:

A lot of artists believe that that's because the ankle push out.

Jason:

That's not necessarily the case.

Jason:

It's more or less.

Jason:

It's a sterile thing.

Jason:

You know, thinner blood is going to bleed more than a normal person.

Jason:

So that.

Jason:

And plus, if you're under the influence of alcohol or a drug or something, your, your vision is impaired psychologically, you may not make the right decision.

Jason:

And that would be on me on that, right?

Hannah:

Make sure we're 18 years old.

Jason:

Yes.

Jason:

And making sure you're 18.

Jason:

You have to be 18 years old in South Carolina.

Jason:

No, you cannot have your parents signature.

Jason:

It does not work.

Jason:

It's not one of those states.

Jason:

18 is the minimum for a tattoo.

Jason:

So 18, be sure you eat.

Jason:

Bring a couple little snacks.

Jason:

Next thing, guys.

Jason:

This is for the novice people.

Jason:

Bring one person with you to be your friend, your, your support, your shoulder to lean on, your person to talk to.

Jason:

Don't bring a whole group of people.

Jason:

One, A lot of artists are not comfortable.

Jason:

It doesn't bother me because I tattoo a lot of people all the time and I have people in and out of my boot like I'm used to it.

Jason:

But I do hear a lot of complaints from a lot of artists.

Jason:

A lot of artists that's worked at my shop, as far as the people coming in the booth, like, they're like, damn, I wish, you know, they would only bring one person.

Jason:

Not mom, dad, brother, sister, aunt, uncle, cousin, niece, nephew.

Jason:

Like you got 10 distracting.

Jason:

Yeah, it's distractive.

Jason:

One for the artist and then two, you can't focus on what the artist is telling you because you got too much going on.

Jason:

So you can't really pay attention to the process.

Jason:

That's, that's the next thing.

Guest:

So would you say that.

Guest:

And I know it varies from person to person for most novice people, for the people who are getting their tattoo for the first time, should they expect it to hurt?

Jason:

Depending on where you get it.

Jason:

Yeah.

Jason:

Me like, yeah, there's places on the body that hurt more than others.

Jason:

It's More of a mental thing, I think.

Jason:

I think people come in and they psych theirself up because they're, again, their friends or whoever, and they're like, hey, it hurt.

Jason:

Oh, don't know.

Jason:

God, it's, you know, it's like, seriously, it's, you know, it's a tattoo.

Jason:

It's a needle.

Jason:

It's gonna have some sort of pain.

Jason:

You're gonna have some kind of reaction, but it's never, like.

Jason:

It's never as bad as they think it's gonna be, especially with me tattooing, because I already know.

Jason:

They come in, they're psyched up, and it's like, oh, yeah, I'll mess with them for a little while, and then I'll sit there until I.

Jason:

I know.

Jason:

Like, I'm.

Jason:

It might take 30 minutes before I'll start the tattoo because I'll just sit there and.

Guest:

And tell their, relax.

Jason:

I've been doing this for so long, I could kind of fill it out.

Jason:

So, yeah, I mean, so do you.

Guest:

Use any kind of, like, numbing cream or anything to, you know, and topical anesthesia or.

Jason:

So we do have numbing cream at the shop there.

Jason:

There's different kinds of numbing cream that are offered.

Jason:

There's, like.

Jason:

I think there's a company called Painless Tattoo.

Jason:

There's tktx.

Jason:

There's all kind of numbing creams.

Jason:

We do use them here and there sometimes.

Jason:

Mainly, I.

Jason:

I don't like to use it on first tattoo.

Jason:

I like somebody to come in and get the experience and understand what their body's going to go through.

Jason:

And then after that, I don't really care.

Jason:

They can use numbing cream whenever.

Jason:

After that, I don't want you to get the numbing cream.

Jason:

And then when the numbing cream wears off, you're in, like, complete shock from the pain because you've never experienced, you know, something like that.

Guest:

Right.

Jason:

That would be the main thing with something with numbing cream.

Jason:

Now back to the.

Jason:

Say that question one more time so I can answer that better.

Guest:

I forgot.

Jason:

You forgot?

Guest:

Well, no.

Guest:

So what I would.

Guest:

Where it came from is like, you know, people talk about how tattoos hurt, and I get that.

Guest:

I've only chosen very fleshy places to have them.

Guest:

But, like, the one that I just had done, the one that you just did for me, is on my thigh, which I've got a pretty fluffy thigh.

Guest:

But, like, it didn't hurt at all.

Guest:

There was no pain.

Guest:

So I was like, maybe he numbed it, and I didn't know.

Guest:

Maybe that's a Standard.

Jason:

No.

Jason:

So I think a lot of the pain also.

Jason:

I think a lot of the pain comes from the experience of the tattoo.

Jason:

Like, when I say experience, like, life experiences.

Jason:

A lot of the.

Jason:

When I say older women, me and you were the same age.

Jason:

If you guys know how old I am, if y'all know me, then this is my cousin.

Jason:

So, like, for someone our age, it's a little different because we've been through things in our life we already know.

Jason:

Like, hey, all right, we're.

Jason:

Yep.

Jason:

This is nothing.

Jason:

And you sit back, you don't really think about it.

Jason:

It's.

Jason:

It's like therapy for someone.

Jason:

I'm gonna say 30 and up.

Jason:

Most of the people that come in that are 30 and up, it's therapy.

Jason:

Most of the younger people that come in, it's more status quo.

Jason:

Yeah, it's more of, like, a status quo type thing.

Jason:

It's like, oh, well, I've got a tattoo, and, you know, Jim's got a sleeve, and I'm gonna go get a sleeve and that type of thing.

Jason:

And the pain thing from them is more of they've listened to their brother got a tattoo from Jim Bob down the street, out the trailer, out the back door, and, you know, they use spit rags and stuff to wipe it off, and he had an infection or some crazy crap.

Jason:

And, I mean, you get what I'm saying?

Jason:

Like, it's.

Jason:

It's.

Jason:

Yeah, it's a mental thing, man.

Jason:

If you come to the shop, it's got a lot to do with the artist, too, though, because you have artists that.

Jason:

That really don't care about the clients.

Jason:

And when I say they.

Jason:

They care more about the money.

Jason:

So they're not trying to make it a pleasant experience.

Jason:

They're not trying to make it comfortable for you.

Jason:

They're just trying to get you in, get you out, get the money, and get the hell on through that.

Jason:

That's a lot of what I see in the industry, and that's a lot of pretty much why I don't have a lot of people in my shop.

Jason:

Not.

Jason:

I have some people that I wish would come back to my shop, but as far as, like, for the most part, the people that have left my shop, I'm glad they're gone.

Guest:

Okay, so.

Guest:

So now we've kind of talked about what it takes to be a tattoo artist, and we talked about kind of the cost associated with it.

Guest:

We've talked about what it's like to get a tattoo.

Guest:

And so you talked.

Guest:

You mentioned older people.

Guest:

Even though we're only in our 40s, Jason.

Guest:

But does it get harder to tattoo on older skin?

Guest:

Because, like, my skin is not as, you know, nice as it used to be?

Jason:

Yes and no.

Jason:

Sometimes, I mean, I've tattooed.

Jason:

Okay, so I tattooed Uncle Kenny.

Jason:

Uncle Kenny's what, 74?

Jason:

This is first tattoo I tattooed him.

Jason:

It was flawless.

Jason:

Like, it.

Jason:

His skin was great.

Jason:

Like, it couldn't have got no better.

Jason:

I mean, even him being that old, a lot of times you, you know, older skin.

Guest:

Uncle Kenny, he's calling you old.

Jason:

Yeah, he knows I love him, though.

Jason:

A lot of times when you hit older skin like that, like, it, it cuts.

Jason:

It's like you got to cut the machine down.

Jason:

It's a technique to it because you'll, you'll tear the skin like you're talking about.

Guest:

Okay.

Jason:

But then there's a lot of times that the older person will actually surprise you because their skin will actually be better than our skin.

Jason:

It's.

Jason:

I don't know.

Jason:

I mean, they work out.

Jason:

Like Kenny, I mean, perfect example, I touched him with a needle.

Jason:

I was like, dang, man, this is going to be great.

Jason:

Like, it's.

Jason:

Yeah, so.

Jason:

And I have tattooed some older people that.

Jason:

Exactly what I said.

Jason:

Like, it's, it takes a little more work in, in instances where, where the skin doesn't.

Jason:

All right, so what you're saying because the skin's not pliable and stuff as, as it was when we were younger, there are instances where I can't put as much detail into something.

Jason:

I have to be like, okay, hey guys, you, we're going to have to change it up a little bit to this.

Jason:

Because if we go this route, it's not, it's just going to blob.

Jason:

Like, it's not going to look proper.

Jason:

But it's very rare.

Jason:

It's very, very rare.

Jason:

I did a butterfly on a lady in daytona.

Jason:

She was 78 years old.

Jason:

It's in one of the books at the shop.

Jason:

It was flawless.

Jason:

And I mean, her skin, she had older people's skin.

Jason:

It's all about selection of where they put it to.

Jason:

That has a lot to do with it.

Guest:

So who's the oldest person you think you've probably tattooed the 78 year old?

Jason:

Nope.

Jason:

I tattooed a doctor.

Jason:

He's retired.

Jason:

He is 80, so he got his first tattoo when he was 70 years old.

Jason:

He came to me to get tattooed when he was 80 and he said if he's around when he's 90, he'll be back.

Guest:

What, what does an 80 year old person get tattooed on?

Jason:

Them?

Guest:

Come On.

Guest:

I gotta know.

Jason:

He got an apple tattooed on him and like a little bitty apple on his arm.

Guest:

Why?

Jason:

Something to do with his doctor.

Guest:

An apple a day keeps the doctor away.

Jason:

Something like that, Yep.

Guest:

Okay, that's funny.

Guest:

So and then I guess you probably have a lot of 18 year olds then, so since that's the youngest, you can get it.

Jason:

Yeah, we have a lot of 18 year olds.

Jason:

A lot of college kids come in.

Guest:

Do you do a lot of clips and paws?

Jason:

No, I don't do a lot of tiger paws.

Jason:

Believe it or not.

Jason:

I don't do none of that.

Jason:

They usually come in, man.

Jason:

They want the little dainty spine tattoos, like the little bitty flower bouquets and stuff like that.

Jason:

Most of the time it's a group of girls that come in.

Jason:

They don't usually.

Jason:

If the girls come in by theirself, they're usually coming to get tattooed by me.

Jason:

They're coming to get a tap out or they.

Jason:

They've already been tattooed by me at some point.

Jason:

You know, if they're 18 and they're just coming in the shop, it's usually like three or four of them.

Jason:

And they're coming to get the little small dainty specials that we do, because we do daily specials.

Jason:

We do $20 and up tattoos every single day.

Jason:

I don't.

Jason:

I'm not against it.

Jason:

I'm never going to be too good for that.

Guest:

So how long do those take?

Guest:

So I.

Guest:

Because I saw your little.

Jason:

Five minutes.

Guest:

Really?

Jason:

Yeah.

Jason:

It takes me longer to set up and let the stencil dry most of the time than it does to do those little $20 tattoos.

Guest:

Do you always have to use a stencil or can you freehand?

Jason:

No, I do a lot of freehanding.

Jason:

Most of the time.

Jason:

I put the stencil on for the people so that I can make them comfortable so they have an idea of what they're getting.

Jason:

They can send pictures because everybody wants to send pictures through Snapchat or they want to do this and they want to do that.

Jason:

Some of the older guys that's been around me a while, they.

Jason:

I do a lot of freehand stuff on them, a lot of filler work, anything that's my shade work.

Jason:

Anytime you ever come get a tattoo for me, if you brought me something off of Pinterest and told me you wanted it identical, I would still change something about that tattoo to make it to where it was not identical.

Jason:

I never, ever used the shape like.

Jason:

So if you brought me like what you brought me, I would take nothing but line work from that, you know, I mean, like, and the tattoo I was doing before you came, like, that big tattoo that I did, I took nothing but line work from whatever the design was and use that as a stencil.

Jason:

All the shade work comes from me.

Jason:

I mean, that's right.

Jason:

Because a lot of people ask me if I draw or anything like that.

Jason:

Like, man, I tattoo eight to ten hours a day now.

Jason:

I don't do a whole lot of drawing.

Jason:

I'm tattooing on the skin all the time.

Guest:

So did you used to draw?

Guest:

Like, are you artistically inclined?

Guest:

Like, did you love art growing up?

Jason:

When I was growing up, I used to draw a lot.

Jason:

Yeah.

Jason:

I mean, I had a lot of time to draw, you know, under my circumstances, I had a lot of time to draw, so.

Guest:

So.

Guest:

And if you're comfortable talking about it, I am going to kind of come back to that.

Guest:

Yeah, we talked in the shop about how tattooing.

Guest:

And you referenced it at the beginning of this conversation.

Guest:

But tattooing is one of the only fields really where you can get in pretty easily, even with a history.

Guest:

So do you find that it's not uncommon to have for people with a.

Guest:

I don't even know what the right word is.

Jason:

With a record.

Guest:

With record, yes.

Guest:

People with a record as tattooing a common field for them to go into.

Guest:

You do run into that a lot.

Jason:

So I would say 10 years ago.

Jason:

Yeah, that was definitely now.

Jason:

Now it's a little more modernized now.

Jason:

Like, it.

Jason:

You still run into it.

Jason:

You run into it a lot.

Jason:

But, like, let's just say you go to a shop and they have five artists in there.

Jason:

Out of those five, guaranteed one of them out of those five has been in trouble.

Jason:

But.

Jason:

So eight years ago, when I started, everybody in the shop that I worked in had been in prison at one point in time.

Jason:

Like, I mean, that's just what it was.

Jason:

I mean, minus one Kevin.

Jason:

Kevin hadn't.

Jason:

But everybody else that had been in there had been in some kind of trouble, some form.

Jason:

I mean, it's just, it's.

Jason:

It's.

Jason:

It was more.

Jason:

It's more of a rebel way of life.

Jason:

That's what it started out as.

Jason:

Like, tattooing was more of, like a more of a rebellious type thing.

Jason:

Like, the first shop I started at was more of a biker shop.

Jason:

So it's a lot different.

Jason:

Like, it's.

Jason:

You got people coming in there that are like, I mean, big time bikers.

Jason:

Like, stuff you see on tv, like in.

Guest:

So you've got like Hell's Angels up In there?

Jason:

Oh yeah, like, but I mean, like, it would be, it wouldn't be like a local person.

Jason:

Like, it would be a, a higher up person.

Jason:

And I, I wouldn't know who they were.

Jason:

Like, you know, not just them.

Jason:

I mean there's, there's a lot of people, a lot of bike clubs that come in to that particular shop that was, that was just a safe haven.

Jason:

MCs.

Jason:

Let me, let me back that up because, yeah, MCs, like with them, like, it was, it was just different.

Jason:

The atmosphere was different.

Jason:

So like it's, it's, it's more so tattooing is becoming so acceptable now that it's like you taking the kids straight out.

Jason:

And I'm not against it.

Jason:

I mean, because you got some people that come straight out of college and straight into tattooing or straight out of, you know, whatever and into tattooing.

Jason:

And they're phenomenal.

Jason:

I mean, I'm not taking nothing from anybody.

Jason:

However you get there is how you get there.

Jason:

It's just a different way of lifestyle.

Jason:

Like my path was a lot harder to get to.

Jason:

Where I'm at versus summer is just handed is silver spoon kind of.

Jason:

You know what I mean?

Jason:

So like the atmosphere at my shop versus Versus where I started from is, is totally different because you come my shop, it's, it's professional, it's clean.

Jason:

It's like, hey D, you know, you got a safe place to go to.

Jason:

And I have all kind of people that come in there too.

Jason:

Like, I mean I Tattoo Everything from MCs to Chief of police is like so.

Guest:

And to sorority girls and everything else.

Jason:

And sorority girls and football players, basketball players, baseball players, soft girls, softball.

Guest:

Yeah.

Guest:

Guys soccer player.

Guest:

You need to follow stick and poke tattoos on their social media.

Guest:

They do have a lot of.

Guest:

Especially if you're a Clemson fan.

Guest:

Go Gamecocks.

Guest:

But they've got a lot of folks who come in, who.

Guest:

Their names that you even I recognize.

Guest:

Like they've got signatures on the wall.

Guest:

It's very neat.

Guest:

So you clearly have built a, a shop atmosphere that.

Guest:

Because you're not the only shop in town, right?

Jason:

No, no, no.

Jason:

There's.

Guest:

But they like coming to you right down the road.

Jason:

Roach and company.

Jason:

You have one that just opened up up the road.

Jason:

There's four shops in cle.

Hannah:

Three shops in Clemson, one in Central.

Jason:

Well, yeah, three in Clemson, one in Central, two in Central.

Jason:

Because you have Cherry Bomb down at the Walmart.

Jason:

They move down towards Walmart.

Jason:

They're Cherry Bomb's very reputable.

Jason:

They've been around for a long time.

Jason:

Ben Roach has been around for a long time with Roach and Company.

Jason:

He's, he's a very good artist.

Guest:

Are you guys competitive?

Guest:

Different tattoo shots.

Guest:

So three or four tattoo shops in a generally smallish area.

Guest:

Like, is, is there a competition or you just, you each do your own thing and have respect for each other?

Jason:

Yeah, I mean, right there where we're at.

Jason:

Like, me and Ben Roach have been there the longest.

Jason:

The other shop, the other two shops just kind of opened.

Jason:

It's not, I'm not.

Jason:

Nothing against them because, I mean, I know the one guy, but it's like, it's no competition with it.

Jason:

Like, it's not.

Jason:

I have my.

Hannah:

Plenty of college kids.

Jason:

Yeah, there's some college kids.

Jason:

And then like, my reputation.

Jason:

I've been tattooing for so long around that area like that.

Jason:

Yeah, for me, it's no competition.

Jason:

For Ben Roach, there's no comp.

Jason:

Like, no, because he has, he has clientele that is set for hell.

Jason:

He's booked for like a year, two years.

Jason:

Like, he, he has clientele for days.

Jason:

Yeah.

Jason:

Now, I mean, there is, there is a lot of that, There's a lot of hatred, a lot of stuff that goes on in the tattoo industry.

Jason:

I mean, you're.

Jason:

No matter what, you're always going to have somebody that doesn't like you, doesn't like something that you've done or you've offended them because you didn't like what they did and you fired them.

Jason:

You know what I mean?

Jason:

Like, you know stuff like that that goes on.

Jason:

But as far as, like, real competition, right there in Clemson now, everybody just kind of.

Jason:

They kind of do their own thing.

Jason:

Like, Ben, he's a specialty artist.

Jason:

He does, he does all kind of specialty work.

Jason:

Like, he does portraits, all kind of stuff.

Jason:

Like, he's really good.

Jason:

I'm a street artist.

Jason:

I do everything that comes in the door.

Jason:

Like, there's nothing.

Jason:

I don't specifically specialize in traditional or I don't specifically specialize in black and gray.

Jason:

If I specialized in anything, it would probably be cover ups.

Jason:

Cover ups is probably my.

Jason:

That would be my strongest point ever on a tattoo.

Jason:

I'm really, I don't know, God gifted me.

Jason:

I can see something that other people can't see in that.

Guest:

I mean, so.

Guest:

And now you're kind of talking about styles.

Guest:

We already talked about the apprenticeship and you learn from someone who's already a, an experienced tattooer.

Guest:

But there are so many different styles of tattooing that are somewhat standardized.

Guest:

So you've got the you know, the traditional or the, the Japanese or whatever.

Guest:

Are there like courses that people take to be able to learn how to do those?

Guest:

Or like, do you have to know how to do all of them or how does that work?

Jason:

I think some of, I mean some of the people are probably like naturally gifted.

Jason:

And that's so like maybe at 3 years old or 4 years old, they've seen a piece like that and they were like, oh man.

Jason:

And they were drawn to that kind of work.

Jason:

And I mean, you have some people that are natural talent that just come off the top of their head with that stuff.

Jason:

Then you have, yeah, obviously you could go to school and study Japanese traditional work.

Jason:

I mean, stuff like that.

Jason:

You could go to, you could take classes at college or something and learn like just regular tattooing, something like that.

Jason:

Now you're not going to be able to learn like at a college, but if you want to learn traditional art, you could go to school for something like that.

Jason:

Japanese, like you're saying Japanese.

Jason:

That's a whole style.

Jason:

I actually have, you know, have some of behind me actually on a picture.

Jason:

So yeah, that's a, that's a complete style you would study because it's, it's different.

Jason:

Most people that.

Jason:

Okay.

Jason:

And most people that do that specifically, like when you see the really, really kick ass pieces that are online that people do and it's like a whole leg, that's all they do.

Jason:

That's the type of work.

Guest:

So that's what I was gonna ask.

Guest:

Are there certain things that.

Guest:

I know you said you're, you called yourself a street artist.

Guest:

You basically will take anything that comes in, but are there shops that are like, we only do portraits.

Guest:

Like, don't come to me if you want a little butterfly tattoo on your wrist.

Guest:

Come to me if you want a picture of your dog or your like grandma on your shoulder.

Guest:

Are there some that literally like, do people know that before they go in or is it just kind of a.

Guest:

That's, that's just when you get there, they're like, we don't really do that.

Guest:

I'm gonna need you to go someplace else.

Guest:

Or they're like, hey, no, I do American traditional or whatever that style is called.

Guest:

And that's all I do.

Guest:

And if you want that, then come to me.

Guest:

Otherwise, make your appointment somewhere else.

Jason:

I mean, so you have artists that literally say it just like you just said it right there at the end.

Jason:

I mean that I do American traditional.

Jason:

You want American traditional, come to me.

Jason:

Or I do black and gray.

Jason:

You have artists that Specialize in black and gray artists that specialize in, like neo traditional.

Hannah:

And then most people know that before they go to a show.

Jason:

Yeah.

Jason:

And most people.

Jason:

Most people do research.

Jason:

Not everybody, because I have people.

Jason:

You should.

Jason:

You always should research artists.

Jason:

I have a five star rating.

Jason:

I've been doing this for a while.

Jason:

You know, you should research your artist because.

Jason:

Yeah.

Jason:

You.

Jason:

Okay.

Jason:

Just.

Jason:

Most people do research, but the ones that don't, they do go in the shop.

Jason:

And a lot of times you have artists.

Jason:

Everybody's not nice when you come in the shop.

Jason:

I.

Jason:

I'm the people that I deal with.

Jason:

I'm super nice.

Jason:

I'm like.

Jason:

I.

Jason:

I deal with a lot of classes of people.

Jason:

Like, there's not a.

Jason:

I'm not gonna be an.

Jason:

Because you come in and says something crazy.

Guest:

Sure.

Jason:

What do you think on that, Dana?

Guest:

Y'all say hi to Dana.

Guest:

By the way, she is Jason's wife.

Guest:

We can't see her, but I can hear her.

Jason:

Yeah, she's in the background.

Jason:

She has a mic back there.

Hannah:

We, at our shop, we have so many different classes of people that come in that you have to treat everybody the same.

Hannah:

So even if somebody came in and wanted to get a portrait done, and Jason doesn't specialize in human portraits, we would give them the option to go to Ben Roach down the road or Todd and Anderson, who.

Hannah:

That's their greatest specialty.

Hannah:

We're never just going to shun somebody away because we had somebody that called the other day and wanted a portrait above her boyfriend's.

Guest:

Oh.

Hannah:

And every shop had turned her away.

Guest:

Did he also want this or she.

Jason:

I'm not sure.

Hannah:

I don't know if Had a inkling that that was happening.

Jason:

Yeah, we're not.

Jason:

I'm not sure.

Hannah:

But every shop she had called had turned her away.

Hannah:

And I told her that in all honesty, she might want to go to Atlanta for that because they will have artists out there who are.

Jason:

Your cousin ain't doing it.

Guest:

Yeah.

Hannah:

So have artists out there that actually specialize.

Jason:

That's one of those.

Jason:

She already knew.

Jason:

Tell her hell no, because I'm not doing it.

Hannah:

They do have artists in Atlanta that specialize in tell you area tattoos.

Jason:

Yeah, that's out my league right there.

Guest:

So are there things.

Hannah:

That he will not do?

Hannah:

Is when you're getting into the gym.

Guest:

Are there any that you're like that that looks like I wouldn't do a good job on it?

Guest:

Like, I.

Guest:

I have faith and ability in my skills, but what you're asking, and this is on your body Forever.

Guest:

I really think you need to go to somebody else with it.

Jason:

Mandalas.

Jason:

If you come to me from mandala, go somewhere else, please.

Jason:

I love y'all, but I hate those things.

Jason:

Like, go to somebody that does those all day long.

Jason:

Listen, guys, mandalas are the hardest thing in the world for me to do because I do so many big, huge tattoos that are, like, shade work based, and they have a lot of lines.

Jason:

I can pull perfect lines.

Jason:

That's not what I'm saying, but I'm more of a.

Jason:

I'm more of a.

Jason:

I can do it and make a mistake and cover with shade work versus you do something wrong on that mandala, you're hit.

Hannah:

If the client sneezes, anything can just ruin that piece.

Guest:

So is that something where you're just straight up with them?

Guest:

You're like, hey, I appreciate you coming in.

Guest:

I appreciate you bringing your business to me, but I'm gonna be honest.

Guest:

This is not something that I think you're gonna get better results someplace else.

Jason:

Yeah.

Jason:

Usually when they come in, they.

Jason:

They ask about the mandalas.

Jason:

I'm.

Jason:

Usually I.

Jason:

So honestly, most of the time, I can talk them into changing it to another design or changing it enough to where I'm comfortable doing that style of mandala.

Amie:

Like.

Jason:

So a lot of people come in.

Jason:

They might come in with a big, intricate.

Jason:

Let's just say it's a circle around, you know, mandala.

Jason:

So that thing has to be perfect in order for that circle to be, like, it's supposed to be.

Guest:

Right.

Jason:

So I might talk them into getting half of that and covering the other half with flowers, like, breaking it up.

Guest:

Okay.

Guest:

So I get that.

Jason:

Something like that.

Jason:

Like, I'll.

Jason:

I'll do my best to accommodate it if I can, but there are times, like, sometimes the mandalas that they bring in, there's no way I'm not going to attempt it.

Jason:

Doing.

Hannah:

Most of the time, they only really, like, one piece of what's inside of the mandala, so it's easier to come up with something else that they actually, really, really want.

Jason:

Yeah, that.

Jason:

She's right on that.

Jason:

Like, most of the time, it'll be a big piece, and they'll only want, like, this little section of the mandala.

Jason:

So sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.

Guest:

Are there people who come in who are like, I know I want a tattoo, but I have no idea what I want.

Guest:

And you have to, like, help them make that decision for something that's going to be on their body for the rest of their life every single day.

Guest:

How, how do you.

Guest:

How do you do that with somebody, man?

Hannah:

I know what they want.

Jason:

Easiest.

Jason:

Yeah, the easiest thing I do, man, the first thing I ask, I'm like, okay, well, show me a couple things that you like.

Jason:

Like, you like.

Jason:

What do you like?

Jason:

You like flowers?

Jason:

Do you like skull?

Jason:

What?

Jason:

You know, what are some things that you like?

Jason:

And then I'll go from there.

Jason:

Okay, so you like that?

Jason:

And then I'll get on Pinterest and I'll pull some stuff.

Jason:

Okay.

Jason:

How do you like something like this?

Jason:

Oh, yeah, we love that.

Jason:

I want to change this.

Jason:

Cool.

Jason:

Now we're getting somewhere.

Jason:

It's a process sometimes.

Jason:

Sometimes it takes 10 minutes, sometimes it takes an hour or two.

Guest:

So is that built into the pricing?

Jason:

They just don't know how to express it.

Jason:

Huh.

Guest:

Is that built into the pricing?

Guest:

Like this consultation period, like when you book.

Guest:

So I don't know how long the time period are.

Guest:

Okay.

Jason:

The consultation portion of it's free.

Jason:

So most of the time for me, they don't even get to me unless they have an appointment.

Jason:

Like, it's.

Jason:

It's very rare.

Jason:

If you come in the shop, yeah, you can see me, you can talk to me, but if you call the shop, you're not going to get to me.

Jason:

Like, unless Dana's in the bathroom, you might get lucky once a month and I answer the phone like, it's.

Jason:

You're not going to.

Jason:

Because she knows that I'm going to get on the phone and somebody's going to ask me 50,000 questions like that.

Jason:

And I'm not going to do it until they come in the shop for that exact reason.

Jason:

Because when they come in and I have you face to face, like, I can, I can guide you a little bit better.

Jason:

If you give me any point of direction, I can, I can take it from there.

Guest:

Okay, well, I'm going to start kind of getting us to the end of this because I know you've got to go handle your appointment.

Guest:

I do want to know, though, what is the favorite, your favorite thing that you've ever tattooed on anybody?

Guest:

Like, you just.

Guest:

You did it and you're like, God, that looks good.

Guest:

Like it's your showcase piece.

Jason:

So it's actually on my wife.

Jason:

I just did it a couple weeks ago.

Jason:

It's not completely finished.

Jason:

It is a cover up that I did.

Jason:

I did a tattoo on her, I don't know, eight years ago, something like that.

Jason:

Long story short, it actually is the tattoo that got me in a tattoo shop.

Jason:

But the very first thing that the guy Said to me when he seen the tattoo, he's like, it's backwards.

Jason:

And I was like, okay.

Jason:

So that was my.

Jason:

That was.

Jason:

That was where I learned the difference.

Guest:

You tattooed her backwards?

Jason:

The.

Jason:

The picture was backwards.

Jason:

So anytime that you do a face or something, like say a skull on a person, if it is a single skull, it has to be facing forward.

Jason:

Like, so it will be facing the front of your body.

Jason:

Otherwise it's.

Jason:

It's reversed.

Jason:

It's backwards.

Jason:

The image is backwards.

Guest:

Okay.

Jason:

It's an.

Jason:

It's an amateur thing.

Jason:

Like, it's.

Jason:

A lot of people now don't really care about it, but the guy that, that, That I learned from.

Jason:

Oh, yeah, man, he.

Jason:

He ain't playing no games.

Jason:

Rip Steve, man, sucks you gone.

Jason:

But yeah, he.

Jason:

He ain't playing no games with stuff like that.

Jason:

So anyway, I covered it up a couple weeks ago.

Jason:

I'm not completely finished with it.

Jason:

I still have about.

Jason:

I'm gonna say about two more hours to completely finish it, but yeah, that's.

Jason:

That's by far, I'm gonna say one of my favorite pieces that I've ever, ever done.

Guest:

Yeah.

Guest:

And I got to see that.

Guest:

So it does.

Guest:

It does look good.

Guest:

And those purples look fantastic in her tattoo.

Guest:

So what is your least favorite thing to tattoo?

Guest:

Besides Mandelas?

Guest:

But like, that you actually do tattoo on a regular basis.

Guest:

You're like, oh, my God, another one of these.

Jason:

The new typical white girl tattoo.

Guest:

So what I just got.

Jason:

No, no, no.

Jason:

The damn under boob tattoos.

Jason:

Oh, I don't mind doing.

Jason:

I mean, like.

Jason:

But guys, stop coming in and getting like two little vines up under your boobs.

Jason:

I'm a 43 year old man.

Jason:

That's not attractive.

Jason:

Get some flowers.

Jason:

Get something crazy.

Jason:

Like, if you're gonna do it, like go all out.

Jason:

Come on, man.

Guest:

s and early:

Jason:

So that's the new tramp stamp.

Jason:

Between that and then they do little spine tattoos down the center of the spine.

Jason:

I don't mind those too much.

Jason:

Most of the time, the people freak their self out over those.

Jason:

They're like, oh, God, it's gonna hurt.

Jason:

They're not that bad.

Jason:

Like, but they psych theirself out.

Jason:

So those right there and then.

Jason:

Yeah, the little.

Jason:

I don't even know what they call.

Jason:

Were they olive branch things that they want to put.

Jason:

Yeah, the olive branch things under.

Jason:

Under the woman.

Jason:

Yeah.

Jason:

No, it's not.

Jason:

I hate them.

Hannah:

It's a new fad.

Jason:

Yeah.

Guest:

Okay, well, that is All I've got.

Guest:

Why don't you take a minute to give a shout out to Stick and Poke Tattoos?

Guest:

Go ahead and give us the spiel.

Guest:

I know you know that all by heart.

Jason:

All right.

Jason:

All right, man.

Jason:

You already know what time it is, man.

Jason:

Jason up at Stick a Poke tattoos in Clemson, South Carolina.

Jason:

1376 Tiger Boulevard, Suite 210.

Jason:

-:

Jason:

You can call to come by anytime, Monday through Saturday, 10am to 8pm Somebody will be there.

Jason:

And if they're not, they will message you back on Facebook, Instagram, or Tick Tock.

Jason:

So be sure you hit us up, man.

Jason:

We got custom T shirts, we got tattoos.

Jason:

Get your asses on up there.

Jason:

Y'all know I do tap out.

Jason:

Five hours and eight hours, 300, $500.

Jason:

Peace.

Guest:

Fantastic.

Guest:

And for anybody who is welcome to Wonderland following but does not yet follow Stick and Poke Tattoos.

Guest:

What is.

Guest:

What are the names?

Guest:

Who do they follow?

Jason:

So on Facebook, it's Stick in Poke, the letter in Poke Tattoos, Clemson.

Jason:

Same thing on Instagram.

Jason:

Same thing on Tik Tok.

Jason:

When you're on Tick Tock, there is a shop page and a personal.

Jason:

My personal page will say the same thing.

Jason:

My.

Jason:

The difference.

Jason:

Mine has my name on it, which is Jason Blair.

Jason:

Same thing for my Facebook, it's Jason Blair.

Jason:

It's got the shop in the background, the Mustang.

Jason:

And if you click on that, you're going to find the shop on my page.

Jason:

My Instagram is Jason Stickenpoke, Clemson, and then my YouTube is Jason Stickenpoke.

Jason:

I think it's Jason Stick and Poke tattoos.

Jason:

Yeah, maybe.

Jason:

I don't know.

Jason:

If you look up Jason Stick and Poke, it'll pull them up, though.

Guest:

And guys, on his YouTube, that's more than just tattoos, right?

Guest:

That's you getting into the car stuff and all of that.

Guest:

So if you guys are into all of that kind of stuff, definitely check that out from Jason.

Guest:

So I appreciate you being here today, my wonderlings.

Guest:

I hope that you have enjoyed this episode.

Amie:

Tattooing, as Jason said, has become much more common.

Amie:

People these days get tattoos for all kinds of reasons.

Barrett:

I have two tattoos.

Amie:

How old were you when you got the first one?

Barrett:

31.

Amie:

And what are the two tattoos?

Barrett:

I have a tattoo under my armpit on the inside of my arm, and I have one on my finger.

Amie:

But what are they?

Barrett:

One of them is a fist holding a clover and a rosary.

Barrett:

And the one on my finger is a cross.

Barrett:

Actually, it's a cross on a mound.

Amie:

Do they hold any significance to you?

Barrett:

They did one time.

Amie:

Do you have any tattoos?

Chris:

Yes I have three.

Amie:

How old were you when you got your first one?

Chris:

18.

Amie:

What are they?

Chris:

One is a Zelda piece that I clipped together.

Chris:

The other two were flash pieces picked off the wall.

Amie:

Do they hold any significance?

Chris:

The first two don't?

Chris:

No, it's just picking things off the wall.

Amie:

The Zelda one?

Chris:

Yeah, it's my favorite game franchise and I put the design together.

Dana:

I have four tattoos.

Dana:

The first one I got about 16 years ago which is on my right foot.

Dana:

It's a two ladybug, the bigger one and a smaller one and it represented me and my son.

Dana:

Then I got an ambigram on my right wrist which is both of the kids names.

Dana:

If you look at it one way it's one kid's name.

Dana:

If you look at it the other way it's the other kid's name.

Dana:

Then I got a humming word on my left foot in memory of my Nana and I have a hey hey.

Dana:

The stupid chicken on my left forearm.

Dana:

That is for my daughter because we call her stupid chicken.

Amie:

What about you?

Amie:

Do you have any tattoos?

Amie:

Share your tattoos with me on social media.

Amie:

And if you're looking to get a new tattoo or your first tattoo and you're near the upstate South Carolina, go see Jason at Stick and Poke Tattoo in Clemson, South Carolina.

Amie:

And until next time, be safe, be kind and stay curious.

Amie:

Welcome to Wonderland podcast is copyrighted by Amie Bland and is part of Big Media.

Amie:

This podcast was recorded in part at the Big Media Recording Studio and in part in the welcome to Wonderland Recording Closet, otherwise known as just My Closet.

Amie:

Any thoughts or opinions expressed as part of this production or those of the hostess unless otherwise indicated.

Amie:

Subscribe to this podcast.

Amie:

Wherever you get your podcasts, please follow, like and share this podcast.

Amie:

Find us on Facebook at Welcome to Wonderland the podcast and on X the app formerly known as Twitter onderlandpod.

Amie:

Check out behind the Scenes Moments and other videos on TikTok at WonderlandPod.

Amie:

And finally, check out Pictures, additional information and go further down the rabbit hole on our website at www.wtwlpod.com.

Amie:

to submit corrections, additional information or requests for episodes, please email the hostess at welcome to wonderlandthepodmail.com.

Guest:

SA.

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